heroes and goats

[pbmax]

I totally agree with this.

Start with Capers... Reportedly, Capers game plans to stop either the run or the pass, depending upon the opponent. This game, the defense stopped neither the run nor the pass. Mark Ingram rushed for 172 yards, for crying out loud. You can't beat a team with an elite QB by letting them rush for those kind of numbers.

They came out after halftime in single high safety to stop Ingram. The result was Graham going off and then the deep game got involved. So there were adjustments and they made the situation worse. What defensive alignment would you suggest that Capers deploy instead?

All you suggest is for Capers, against one of the five best QB and one of the 3 best passing attacks to focus on the run. That approach allowed NO to score 30 points in a half. I prefer letting Ingram rush for 100 in a half and allow 16 points total because they had trouble getting into the end zone from the red zone as well.

How about this instead? The only Packer defenders who get clear off blocks on a regular basis are Peppers and Matthews. Add in the deep safety and that is three guys free to make a correct form tackle. The deep safety is usually a rookie.

Eight other guys are in the process of being tied into knots by their blocker and cannot disengage. Some never get loose, some get one hand free, some dive at the ground trying to bury the block or trip the ball carrier. But guess what those 8 guys look like when they try to tackle? They look like players who cannot employ fundamentals to make a tackle. McCarthy mentioned this today in his presser.

But I don't think its tackling fundamentals. Its defeating the blocker across from you and disengaging at the correct moment. That had been happening in the previous 4 games, it didn't last night.

The question isn't whether Capers is dumb or the scapegoat for his game plan. Do the Packers have the players who can play a scheme he can coach? After that one game, it looks again like a colossal mismatch. And it has seemed that way whenever they meet a team they cannot turn into a one dimensional opponent.

The DC will always take the fall, but the brain trust has to figure out how to match the players to a coach's scheme. It hasn't happened since they had Collins, Woodson and Matthews at his peak health.

[Joemailman]

The DC will always take the fall, but the brain trust has to figure out how to match the players to a coach's scheme. It hasn't happened since they had Collins, Woodson and Matthews at his peak health.

So, the scheme only works if you have at least 3 Pro Bowlers on your defense? In addition to those, I would add that Tramon and Raji had career years in 2010. There are teams that play respectable defense with less. At times, the defense has looked like they've turned a corner, and then you have a performance like last night. Halfway through the season, the defense is still a bit of a mystery.

[pbmax]

So, the scheme only works if you have at least 3 Pro Bowlers on your defense? In addition to those, I would add that Tramon and Raji had career years in 2010. There are teams that play respectable defense with less. At times, the defense has looked like they've turned a corner, and then you have a performance like last night. Halfway through the season, the defense is still a bit of a mystery.

Its only in the top 8 (25%) in the League with 3 Pro Bowlers and 2 near Pro Bowlers, yes. That kind of goes with the territory.

I would tend to think that defenses doing much more with less (say the Cowboys this year) in a non-fluke, non-no film, new scheme way are actually more talented that people realize at the time (see Packers D in 2009).

But its possible Capers scheme yields huge variability when poorly executed. And I believe its been poorly executed. Even the players who have been lauded in this short season have been very up and down (Matthews, Daniels, Peppers, Shields). Ironically, the most consistent might be Burnett. In the front seven, who was free and clear to make a tackle versus Ingram last night? All the missed blocks, other than dives by filling DBs, were guys that couldn't get off their blocks.

wist might get his wish because I am not sure that any nickel he throws out there this year can defend the run. So it will only be of use when they have a good lead later in the game. The only problem is that when they ran 3-4 in the second half after getting gashed on the ground again, it was just as leaky.

[Maxie the Taxi]

They came out after halftime in single high safety to stop Ingram. The result was Graham going off and then the deep game got involved. So there were adjustments and they made the situation worse. What defensive alignment would you suggest that Capers deploy instead?

I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

[pbmax]

I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

I agree about pressure. ESPNWisconsin or someone referred to Pro Football Focus and said that the Packers blitzed on 10 of 35 Brees drop backs. He had a perfect passer rating on the throws without a blitz. I am a little dubious about that as I THINK Matthews caught him on a base pressure play (though there was no throw obviously).

But it goes without saying that if you go high pressure, you are going to get strafed by well timed runs with your pass rush unit out there. That is not really a threat with the Colts unless its Luck himself.

And that brings me around to the critical failure of this coach and this GM. They don't seem able to collect and develop the talent to get pass rush out of their base personnel. And as wist has pointed out, it becomes a tell. Now, if you can leverage it into favorable down and distance, then it doesn't matter. But as Capers said in the JSO writeup, without good tackling, it was too often 3rd and 2, not 3rd and 9.

[Pugger]

I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

Perhaps Dom was trying to get after Brees - running game be damned - but we just didn't get home? It seemed like we tried to utilize our new fangled NASCAR package and more DBs than LBers but when you allow a QB like Brees time you are gonna get burned like we did.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Perhaps Dom was trying to get after Brees - running game be damned - but we just didn't get home? It seemed like we tried to utilize our new fangled NASCAR package and more DBs than LBers but when you allow a QB like Brees time you are gonna get burned like we did.

You're probably right, although I never felt like Dom fully committed to rushing Brees. I remember when Dom first came on the scene and the only word the stuck in my mind as the key to his defense was "disruption." Nowadays the GB defense doesn't disrupt the opposing offense, it merely inconveniences it.

[George Cumby]

You're probably right, although I never felt like Dom fully committed to rushing Brees. I remember when Dom first came on the scene and the only word the stuck in my mind as the key to his defense was "disruption." Nowadays the GB defense doesn't disrupt the opposing offense, it merely inconveniences it.

Minorly.

[Cleft Crusty]

Perhaps Dom was trying to get after Brees - running game be damned - but we just didn't get home? It seemed like we tried to utilize our new fangled NASCAR package and more DBs than LBers but when you allow a QB like Brees time you are gonna get burned like we did.

Your assessment is spot on, but in New Orleans, Capers didn't have the horses to get it done. As I mentioned somewhere else, Packers needed that central core, right up the middle of D. Jones, Burnett, and Shields. Clearly the Packers value the speed of Burnett and Shields, as they shelled out some decent cash for those two. Like most teams, they can't afford to have three starters out, especially at high value positions, and on a defense that doesn't have much wiggle room for error.

[Harlan Huckleby]

D. Jones, Burnett, and Shields. Clearly the Packers value the speed of Burnett and Shields, as they shelled out some decent cash for those two. Like most teams, they can't afford to have three starters out, especially at high value positions, and on a defense that doesn't have much wiggle room for error.

As long as we are wallowing in self-pity, Raji makes 4. Guion is looking pretty decent, but the bullpen is weak.

[Striker]

I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

It's probably a split between personnel and philosophy. Capers contemporaries seem to adjust with varying levels of talent. The Patriots have had revolving doors at numerous positions but their defense seems to manage. The numerous mental mistakes, blown assignments, and sloppy play point more to coaching than talent.

At the same, they seemed to over correct heavily this year. McCarthy and Capers "wanted" to get faster and leaner along the line. So they dumped the big uglies up front except for Raji and now they'll get knocked around by power teams, especially on fast tracks.