Official Packers vs. Patriots Discussion Thread

[wist43]

This post proves again that you don't know what you're talking about. I guess putting a hand down on the ground makes you a DL. Or not. Or sometimes it does. Or not. 6 OLB who were drafted as DLs or played as DLs means a 2-4 is an 0-6 or a 1-5. Depending on whether a hand is touching dirt. Or not. Or something. Or not.

I'm saying that alignment is a 3-3, max is saying it is a 2-4...

He is trying to play a sophistry game by saying that a down linemen is not a defensive linemen. In terms of a 3-3 or a 2-4?? The definition is how many linemen you have, and how many LB's you have.

You guys can try to spin it all you want, but 3 down linemen, lined up inside the tackles, and 3 LB's standing up, 2 outside and 1 inside - that is by definition a 3-3.

[mraynrand]

You guys can try to spin it all you want, but 3 down linemen, lined up inside the tackles, and 3 LB's standing up, 2 outside and 1 inside - that is by definition a 3-3.

There's no spin. The Packers have at least 4 OLBs who can play DE - Neal, Perry, Matthews and Peppers. So when those four (or three plus Hawk) are on the field with two defensive linemen, the D can play any number of combinations from a 4-3, 3-3, 2-4, elephant, whatever. It depends on down and distance and alignment. If you don't take the circumstance and specific alignment into consideration on a specific play, you can be totally wrong about what Capers is trying to do.

The huge difference is that last year they had (for a while) Jolly and Pickett as run stopping DL only. But those guys could get trapped on the field by any team that runs a no-huddle/hurry up.

I think Capers wanted the versatility to run from 4-3 to 2-4 with the same people on the field. Partly because of the demise of Raji (performance and then injury) and now Hawk, he's yielded more in the run game to protect the passing defense. With all the parts in place, the Packer pass D has been doing what Capers intended - turn the ball over. But it's looked bad at times yielding lots of yards, especially in the run game. I don't see it getting better until they improve personnel at DT and ILB.

[pbmax]

I'm saying that alignment is a 3-3, max is saying it is a 2-4...

He is trying to play a sophistry game by saying that a down linemen is not a defensive linemen. In terms of a 3-3 or a 2-4?? The definition is how many linemen you have, and how many LB's you have.

You guys can try to spin it all you want, but 3 down linemen, lined up inside the tackles, and 3 LB's standing up, 2 outside and 1 inside - that is by definition a 3-3.

I am giving you that the Bear front* is a 3-3. To describe it as a 2-4 causes more confusion than clarity. But that doesn't transform Perry, body-wise, into a DT.

We have forgotten a small point about your call for the 3-3. You wanted more size to defense the middle of the field. You wanted to take Jones or Hawk off the field for a DB and leave three lineman.

So Capers, in this formation, run for 15 snaps versus 1 team, gave you half of what you want. A formation of 3-3. But he did it by subtracting a lineman for the DB and lining up an OLB at DT. That is a plus of 1 inch and 10 pounds over Jones.

* actual Bear front needs another backer on the LOS, but three lineman over the G-C-G is one of the defining characteristics.

[ThunderDan]

I am giving you that the Bear front* is a 3-3. To describe it as a 2-4 causes more confusion than clarity. But that doesn't transform Perry, body-wise, into a DT.

We have forgotten a small point about your call for the 3-3. You wanted more size to defense the middle of the field. You wanted to take Jones or Hawk off the field for a DB and leave three lineman.

So Capers, in this formation, run for 15 snaps versus 1 team, gave you half of what you want. A formation of 3-3. But he did it by subtracting a lineman for the DB and lining up an OLB at DT. That is a plus of 1 inch and 10 pounds over Jones.

* actual Bear front needs another backer on the LOS, but three lineman over the G-C-G is one of the defining characteristics.

This is why I don't get into it with Wist anymore.

Earlier this year, I was trying to argue that our 2-4 was really more of a 4-2 when you had Perry and Peppers as the OLBs in the formation. He would have nothing to do with that even with Peppers playing DE in a 4-3 for his whole career. Peppers in a two point stance in the exact same spot as where he was is a 3 point stance the year before didn't count.