WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF DOM CAPERS

[Bretsky]

Not sure I buy into all of that completely Patler.

What our defense does not have is Aaron Rodgers; he really masks weaknesses everywhere..being the best qb in the nfl at the most important position.

But I really think the offense parts around Rodgers are also stronger, personnel wise, than the defensive parts around Clay. I think Ted has done a better job filling out the offensive talent than on defense.

[Patler]

Not sure I buy into all of that completely Patler.

What our defense does not have is Aaron Rodgers; he really masks weaknesses everywhere..being the best qb in the nfl at the most important position.

But I really think the offense parts around Rodgers are also stronger, personnel wise, than the defensive parts around Clay. I think Ted has done a better job filling out the offensive talent than on defense.

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

[mraynrand]

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

Good post. But the difference is the QB. Not many defensive players can have the kind of impact of a QB who is one of the top three QBs in the league.

Capers is decent, not great, and like so many coaches, looks so much better with great experienced talent. Can't deny that Packer struck gold in 2010 with Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Williams, and Raji all playing at a high level, plus guys like Pickett, Jenkins, Shields, and Bishop all playing well down the stretch. 2014 could see the same thing if Daniels, Peppers, Matthews, Burnett, and Shields could play like pro bowlers and others could play well consistently down the stretch. It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though...

[woodbuck27]

Good post. But the difference is the QB. Not many defensive players can have the kind of impact of a QB who is one of the top three QBs in the league.

Capers is decent, not great, and like so many coaches, looks so much better with great experienced talent. Can't deny that Packer struck gold in 2010 with Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Williams, and Raji all playing at a high level, plus guys like Pickett, Jenkins, Shields, and Bishop all playing well down the stretch. 2014 could see the same thing if Daniels, Peppers, Matthews, Burnett, and Shields could play like pro bowlers and others could play well consistently down the stretch. It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though...

" It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though..." m

Sometime like ...TODAY Vs the New England Patriots ! It doesn't get much better (more HUGE) than what we hope to see today.

GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

This is the question I keep coming back to but I get to the opposite conclusion (which is why I don't favor summarily firing him).

Since 2010, rank of Defense on Points Allowed
2011 - 19th
2012 - 11th
2013 - 24th
2014 - 15th

OK, ranks and yearly totals leave a lot of things out, so how about more advanced metrics?

Football Outsiders
2011 - 25th
2012 - 8th
2013 - 31st
2014 - 12th

Just for comparison's sake, Bob Sanders was fired after finishing 22nd in PA and 12th at Football Outsiders. There is a lot of bend but don't break in Capers D, especially the two worst years. Yardage ranks are lower than points allowed.

[3irty1]

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

I don't agree with this. If anything Dom relies too much on getting the most out of one or two superstars. He's produced 3 DPOY which is way more than his fair share plus had Clay as a finalist in 2010. The issues seem come when the guy you built your system around goes down.

Also its not fair to compare the offense and defense that way. By nature of offense you're imposing your will and know what's coming which makes it way easier to hide a weak player. Defense is always reacting so a weak link on defense is a much bigger liability.

I think Dom is better than his defense's rankings the last few years and worse than his league reputation as a genius innovator.