WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF DOM CAPERS

[pbmax]

The difference has to do with Gronk not being the same caliber of weapon that Jones is. Gronk is a terrific tight end but he's still a tight end. Gronk would need to catch 30 balls to do the kind of damage Julio can do in 10.

Exactly. They are so different, I actually think Capers whiffed on that idea. Unless Baranczyk is right and he was non-game planning them. Which is not standard M3 operating procedure.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-even...e-f690f30a793b

Packers defense has no answer for Julio Jones

Posted Dec 8, 2014

[woodbuck27]

Not an X and O guy, but I saw a D that got pretty lucky in the first half and one that went into clock management in the second half way to early. They played soft and got beat up by a very talented player. Thing is they got there break when the Falcons scored on 4th down, Hyde broke up 3rd down pass to the out at the front pylon. Ryan stared down that play and had Hyde not knocked the pass down Shields was going 100 yards the other way for the back breaking score. It didn't work out that way and Atlanta was in desperation mode at that point and scored on 4th down. I don't think MrAyn is too far off on the rope a dope defense, lol. I don't really understand why though. Shields played poor, from what I could tell, but man that dude is fast. He chased down Jones on that long pass. Dude made everyone else look like they were running in quick sand!

" Shields played poor, from what I could tell, but man that dude is fast. He chased down Jones on that long pass. Dude made everyone else look like they were running in quick sand! " LEWCWA

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...vs-julio-jones

Sam Shields Exposed in Matchup vs. Julio Jones

By: Justis Mosqueda , Featured Columnist

Dec 10, 2014

Comment woodbuck27:

Sam Shields is fast. It also looked to me like Sam Shields chased down Julio Jones but I learned I was wrong when I reviewed my recording of the game this morning..

With the score Packers 31 over Atlanta 7 and now in the 3rd Qtr.:

It was NO. 38 Tramon Williams who beaten up field, turned and ran Julio Jones down with Sam Shields (who did close very fast) next in with an assist on the tackle inside the Packer 5 yard line with approx. 14:41 remaining in the 3rd Qtr.

You'll see this by looking at the video at the bottom of the article above.

GO PACK GO !

[Joemailman]

Shields was running Jones down and forced him to cut to the middle of the field where others were able to make the tackle. That would have been a TD without Shields doing what he did.

[wist43]

GBPG says it was the plan to go vanilla after building the big lead:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/spo...ense/20173407/

The logic of saying - let's keep possible double coverage and bracketing a secret, b/c we might face them in the playoffs - is so flawed I don't even know where to begin!!

Does anyone really think that any defense doubling or bracketing Jones would come as a surprise to the Falcons?? That should have been the basis of the gameplan for this game from the start, and it should the founding principle of any gameplan should we face them again!!

Is there some unspoken Packer rule that says we can only employ sound logic against an opponent once, but not twice, b/c, '... boy, won't they be surprised when we don't play as stupidly the second time'??

We are always 1 gameplan away from disasterous results with dunderdummy as our DC. Now, after what should have been a momentum and confidence building win against NE, dunderdummy comes out and allows yet another record setting performance (breaking the previous record also allowed by dunderdummy) against us.

In predictable dunderdummy fashion, he has killed our momentum and confidence, and the talk of the Packers being the clear frontrunner in the NFC has changed to, '... can Rodgers and the offense overcome that pathetic defense'??

[woodbuck27]

Shields was running Jones down and forced him to cut to the middle of the field where others were able to make the tackle. That would have been a TD without Shields doing what he did.

Tramon Williams made the tackle a step in front of Sam Shields.


There's more here:

Observe how Tramon Williams runs around Morgan Burnett. How much slower (or maybe? just lazy) Burnett is on this play.

[mraynrand]

^^^ of course you are right Wist. Capers should have lit Jones up at the LOS, but he's too afraid to take those kind of chances. Prefers this slow to medium bleeding. That man coverage of Jones was the most absurd thing I've seen in a long while. Even my friend watching the game with me, who knows little about football, knew that strategy was flawed. Kudos to House for the way he stood up to the challenge though.

[mraynrand]

BTW, if 33 didn't tip that 3rd and goal pass at the beginning of the second half, Shields probably gets a pick 6 and ends the game. Too bad.

[woodbuck27]

The logic of saying - let's keep possible double coverage and bracketing a secret, b/c we might face them in the playoffs - is so flawed I don't even know where to begin!!

Does anyone really think that any defense doubling or bracketing Jones would come as a surprise to the Falcons?? That should have been the basis of the gameplan for this game from the start, and it should the founding principle of any gameplan should we face them again!!

Is there some unspoken Packer rule that says we can only employ sound logic against an opponent once, but not twice, b/c, '... boy, won't they be surprised when we don't play as stupidly the second time'??

We are always 1 gameplan away from disasterous results with dunderdummy as our DC. Now, after what should have been a momentum and confidence building win against NE, dunderdummy comes out and allows yet another record setting performance (breaking the previous record also allowed by dunderdummy) against us.

In predictable dunderdummy fashion, he has killed our momentum and confidence, and the talk of the Packers being the clear frontrunner in the NFC has changed to, '... can Rodgers and the offense overcome that pathetic defense'??

Did you observe Julius Peppers demeanor at the end of the game? His seemingly to me distance or non-attachment to those he plays with ...and if I saw that accurately?

What or why was that?

He looked sad.

[pbmax]

^^^ of course you are right Wist. Capers should have lit Jones up at the LOS, but he's too afraid to take those kind of chances. Prefers this slow to medium bleeding. That man coverage of Jones was the most absurd thing I've seen in a long while. Even my friend watching the game with me, who knows little about football, knew that strategy was flawed. Kudos to House for the way he stood up to the challenge though.

While wist is arguing with a former High School coach I do agree they should have pressed him harder on the line.

Several pre-game article mentioned that Jones one weakness was getting of the LOS. But I get the idea, and not just on the Packers, that part of CB technique is left to the CB to determine. I wonder if none of the others wanted to bump him. Maybe need to hire Al Harris back.

[wist43]

^^^ of course you are right Wist. Capers should have lit Jones up at the LOS, but he's too afraid to take those kind of chances. Prefers this slow to medium bleeding. That man coverage of Jones was the most absurd thing I've seen in a long while. Even my friend watching the game with me, who knows little about football, knew that strategy was flawed. Kudos to House for the way he stood up to the challenge though.

You can play man on Jones, and jam him off the line, but I'd have safety help over the top... safety help that is dedicated to Jones, and not subject to being run off by another receiver intended to do just that.

I can't stand Belichick, but he always gameplans that way, i.e. take away their #1 option, and deal with whatever is left.

I would have approached Jones the same way I would have approached Gronk - except that the underneath coverage on Jones would have to be a CB, whereas the underneath coverage on Gronk could be anyone you want... the key is, you always, always have safety help.

In that link someone posted, the first thing that stood out to me about the picture of Jones making the catch over Shields was - where is the safety?? Of course there is no safety in the picture, b/c dunderdummy is our DC.

I read some of the comments from fans at the end of that article, and the first communt was from a guy who said it well, "... we're a roll of the dice defense". One week it's yatzee, the next week it's snake eyes.

I say it all the time - our defense, and therefore our teams chances, rest solely one man - dunderdummy. If everything else is fairly constant - he is the constant variable... you just never know what you're going to get week in, and week out.

Dunderdummy can't be trusted - even if he pitched 3 straight shutouts going into the playoffs this year - he'd be just as likely to blow a gasket and give up 50+ pts and embarrass us out of the playoffs with a "one and done".

[mraynrand]

Did you observe Julius Peppers demeanor at the end of the game? His seemingly to me distance or non-attachment to those he plays with ...and if I saw that accurately?

What or why was that?

He looked sad.

I think he realized how many years he wasted before he looked upon Luke with his own eyes.

[gbgary]

they seemed intent on playing it one way with jones in spite of the results. baffling.

[George Cumby]

My mind. No, I was totally joking around. Would have been a good story. Kind of seemed like someone getting punished though, huh?

You got me good! Fucker.

[vince]

wist - CMON MAN!

There are a number of different ways to cheat the defense to a guy and a number of situations where you might want to do so - or not. You can play a soft cover 2 like teams do against the Packers which comes short of doubling a guy like you're talking about and still has more than its share of holes. But you're talking about predictably dedicating two guys to Jones and never taking them off - the whole game on all downs from start to finish as if it's some grade school strategy that would be guaranteed to shut down the Falcons. It's grade school alright.

You spew terms like "unsound" around like there's no tomorrow and now you're talking about sacrificing the integrity of the D - not around the ball with layers of back-up - but leaving gaping holes from the ball all the way to the end zone. And you want to do it in a completely predictable way like it's a no-brainer strategy but Capers isn't smart enough to have thought of it.

You think Mike Smith and Matt Ryan aren't good enough to use White, Douglas and Hester against a boundary corner, slot/backup corner and a safety (or worse) with no one else between them and the end zone - when they know what's coming, how and when (all game long) - no ifs ands or buts with no attempt to hide coverage or change anything up. You talk about stressing a defense that'll do it quickly and all day long... and you think that's what Bellichek would do?

What they did (with a big lead) was too simple, too soft much of the time and guys played like shit but it was at least fundamentally sound. With the exception of the 80 yarder to start the half when Tramon bit on a double move they forced time off the clock in spite of poor individual perimeter play. They gave up yards in 10-yard chunks instead of 50 yard chunks like would likely happen in your approach.

You're right about one thing. There's no logical reason to keep that defense a secret. No surprises indeed.

[mraynrand]

But you're talking about predictably dedicating two guys to Jones and never taking them off - the whole game on all downs from start to finish as if it's some grade school strategy that would be guaranteed to shut down the Falcons. It's grade school alright.....

I don't know about Bretsky, but this is not what I was talking about. I think you could mix a few double teams in - and hit the guy hard at the LOS. And then you also make sure you shade the safety to his side. Or just stay in mostly two-deep zone so it isn't hard to get over the top in a hurry. Perhaps this is just a Clinton-Dix issue - maybe he hasn't yet learned the subtleties of appearing to be covering both sides, but then shading late to one side, etc. etc. He should watch some tape of Brian Dawkins.

[vince]

I was referring to Coordinator wist's prescription above sorry ayn.

[wist43]

There are a number of different ways to cheat the defense to a guy and a number of situations where you might want to do so - or not. You can play a soft cover 2 like teams do against the Packers which comes short of doubling a guy like you're talking about and still has more than its share of holes. But you're talking about predictably dedicating two guys to Jones and never taking them off - the whole game on all downs from start to finish as if it's some grade school strategy that would be guaranteed to shut down the Falcons. It's grade school alright.

You spew terms like "unsound" around like there's no tomorrow and now you're talking about sacrificing the integrity of the D - not around the ball with layers of back-up - but leaving gaping holes from the ball all the way to the end zone. And you want to do it in a completely predictable way like it's a no-brainer strategy but Capers isn't smart enough to have thought of it.

You think Mike Smith and Matt Ryan aren't good enough to use White, Douglas and Hester against a boundary corner, slot/backup corner and a safety (or worse) with no one else between them and the end zone - when they know what's coming, how and when (all game long) - no ifs ands or buts with no attempt to hide coverage or change anything up. You talk about stressing a defense that'll do it quickly and all day long... and you think that's what Bellichek would do?

What they did (with a big lead) was too simple, too soft much of the time and guys played like shit but it was at least fundamentally sound. With the exception of the 80 yarder to start the half when Tramon bit on a double move they forced time off the clock in spite of poor individual perimeter play. They gave up yards in 10-yard chunks instead of 50 yard chunks like would likely happen in your approach.

You're right about one thing. There's no logical reason to keep that defense a secret. No surprises indeed.

Double post

[wist43]

There are a number of different ways to cheat the defense to a guy and a number of situations where you might want to do so - or not. You can play a soft cover 2 like teams do against the Packers which comes short of doubling a guy like you're talking about and still has more than its share of holes. But you're talking about predictably dedicating two guys to Jones and never taking them off - the whole game on all downs from start to finish as if it's some grade school strategy that would be guaranteed to shut down the Falcons. It's grade school alright.

You spew terms like "unsound" around like there's no tomorrow and now you're talking about sacrificing the integrity of the D - not around the ball with layers of back-up - but leaving gaping holes from the ball all the way to the end zone. And you want to do it in a completely predictable way like it's a no-brainer strategy but Capers isn't smart enough to have thought of it.

You think Mike Smith and Matt Ryan aren't good enough to use White, Douglas and Hester against a boundary corner, slot/backup corner and a safety (or worse) with no one else between them and the end zone - when they know what's coming, how and when (all game long) - no ifs ands or buts with no attempt to hide coverage or change anything up. You talk about stressing a defense that'll do it quickly and all day long... and you think that's what Bellichek would do?

What they did (with a big lead) was too simple, too soft much of the time and guys played like shit but it was at least fundamentally sound. With the exception of the 80 yarder to start the half when Tramon bit on a double move they forced time off the clock in spite of poor individual perimeter play. They gave up yards in 10-yard chunks instead of 50 yard chunks like would likely happen in your approach.

You're right about one thing. There's no logical reason to keep that defense a secret. No surprises indeed.

There you guys go again - taking a general statement of mine and extrapolating it to all circumstances, and then declaring it null and void. More intellectually dishonesty.

Of course teams are going send guys in motion, and shift presnap to drop a safety down on one side or the other, etc... all that means is that the coverage would change with who has what responsibility to cover the #1 threat on any given play depending on personnel.

To be sure, there would be instances in which a guy like Jones would be isolated one on one, or could only be covered within a zone - that is the presnap chess game of formation, personnel, motion, and audibles; but for the most part, the gameplan should be such that those instances would be limited.

When the offense would be able to iso a guy like Jones - that would be a "win" them in the game within a game - even if they weren't able to execute and connect.

Is this rocket science to you guys??

[vince]

Just going by what you wrote wist. I need to re-remind myself not to get mired in the circle-jerk of scheme discussion guaranteed to go nowhere. "That's not what I meant. I really meant this you idiot." Carry on with your authoritative solutions Mr. Coordinator.