WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF DOM CAPERS

[Patler]

Not sure I buy into all of that completely Patler.

What our defense does not have is Aaron Rodgers; he really masks weaknesses everywhere..being the best qb in the nfl at the most important position.

But I really think the offense parts around Rodgers are also stronger, personnel wise, than the defensive parts around Clay. I think Ted has done a better job filling out the offensive talent than on defense.

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

[Joemailman]

.

[mraynrand]

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

Good post. But the difference is the QB. Not many defensive players can have the kind of impact of a QB who is one of the top three QBs in the league.

Capers is decent, not great, and like so many coaches, looks so much better with great experienced talent. Can't deny that Packer struck gold in 2010 with Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Williams, and Raji all playing at a high level, plus guys like Pickett, Jenkins, Shields, and Bishop all playing well down the stretch. 2014 could see the same thing if Daniels, Peppers, Matthews, Burnett, and Shields could play like pro bowlers and others could play well consistently down the stretch. It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though...

[woodbuck27]

Good post. But the difference is the QB. Not many defensive players can have the kind of impact of a QB who is one of the top three QBs in the league.

Capers is decent, not great, and like so many coaches, looks so much better with great experienced talent. Can't deny that Packer struck gold in 2010 with Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Williams, and Raji all playing at a high level, plus guys like Pickett, Jenkins, Shields, and Bishop all playing well down the stretch. 2014 could see the same thing if Daniels, Peppers, Matthews, Burnett, and Shields could play like pro bowlers and others could play well consistently down the stretch. It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though...

" It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though..." m

Sometime like ...TODAY Vs the New England Patriots ! It doesn't get much better (more HUGE) than what we hope to see today.

GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

This is the question I keep coming back to but I get to the opposite conclusion (which is why I don't favor summarily firing him).

Since 2010, rank of Defense on Points Allowed
2011 - 19th
2012 - 11th
2013 - 24th
2014 - 15th

OK, ranks and yearly totals leave a lot of things out, so how about more advanced metrics?

Football Outsiders
2011 - 25th
2012 - 8th
2013 - 31st
2014 - 12th

Just for comparison's sake, Bob Sanders was fired after finishing 22nd in PA and 12th at Football Outsiders. There is a lot of bend but don't break in Capers D, especially the two worst years. Yardage ranks are lower than points allowed.

[Bossman641]

I voted average and my reasoning is as follows. When is the last time we had a truly dominant DL? Raji or Jenkins during the SB run? Even the years that we've had a decent DL it's always been a mix of run pluggers (Jolly/Jenkins) and pass rushers (Daniels). Not enough balanced/2 way players. I don't even need to discuss the LB situation. It's been a revolving door opposite CM3 and the ILB's need a serious upgrade.

[Smidgeon]

Maybe it was injuries forcing Dom's hand, but he hasn't been this creative (2014) since 2010 when he ran the Woodson 2-4 all year. And it's been effective.

We've basically been harping on him for the 2011, 2012, and 2013 defensive failings. But don't those coincide with waaay too many injuries? HHCD may have finally filled Collins' spot (not the same skill, but far from an embarrassment), and that needed filling. Plus Hyde, Hayward, Daniels, etc.

[pbmax]

Health is a big factor here and it was last year in reverse fashion. Only Perry and maybe Hawk were limited yesterday.

[wist43]

So dunderdummy has put together 2 decent games in the last 4... makes me wonder what his motivation is - such as, are TT and MM holding his family hostage and actually forcing him to do his job??

Doing his job for the sake of doing his job doesn't make sense, b/c afterall - he is dunderdummy. Have to assume he's got a gun to his head in some way

--------------------------------------------------------------

Haven't looked at the game yet though... saw some of the 4th quarter - I turned it on, and the first 5 plays I saw were NE ramming it down our throats for 50+ yds and a TD, lol...

My brother sent me a text about 1/2 way thru the 2nd quarter and said, "... here comes the 2-4, gonna get ugly now"; and then 3 minutes later, he texted, "... NE TD".

Still, the stats look good, and they kept the score down... Neal's sack near the end saved the day - great play by Neal. I'll look at the game tomorrow.

[gbgary]

liked the barrington move.

[Zool]

So dunderdummy has put together 2 decent games in the last 4... makes me wonder what his motivation is - such as, are TT and MM holding his family hostage and actually forcing him to do his job??

Doing his job for the sake of doing his job doesn't make sense, b/c afterall - he is dunderdummy. Have to assume he's got a gun to his head in some way

--------------------------------------------------------------

Haven't looked at the game yet though... saw some of the 4th quarter - I turned it on, and the first 5 plays I saw were NE ramming it down our throats for 50+ yds and a TD, lol...

My brother sent me a text about 1/2 way thru the 2nd quarter and said, "... here comes the 2-4, gonna get ugly now"; and then 3 minutes later, he texted, "... NE TD".

Still, the stats look good, and they kept the score down... Neal's sack near the end saved the day - great play by Neal. I'll look at the game tomorrow.

Packers getting 3 instead of 7, and Brady fitting the ball into some tight places kept the game close. He made some fantastic throws. When the Packers were across the 50, Pats D got the Packers in 3rd and long often. Fun game to watch.

[3irty1]

Over rated IMO

I roll my eyes and chuckle everytime the camera switches to him and the knobs on tv talk about what a "guru" he is

He may have been a defensive guru at one time, but the rest of the league has figured him out

Average at best DC at this point, and not a fit for the system that TT drafts and builds for

I am somewhere between the first and second answer. I selected the first because i do not think he does a good job with the talent given

Overrated is the best description for Capers IMO. And definitely some truth to his fit with TT as well.

Usually he looks worse than he is due to abnormally unhealthy talent, this year looks better than he is due to abnormally healthy talent.

[3irty1]

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

I don't agree with this. If anything Dom relies too much on getting the most out of one or two superstars. He's produced 3 DPOY which is way more than his fair share plus had Clay as a finalist in 2010. The issues seem come when the guy you built your system around goes down.

Also its not fair to compare the offense and defense that way. By nature of offense you're imposing your will and know what's coming which makes it way easier to hide a weak player. Defense is always reacting so a weak link on defense is a much bigger liability.

I think Dom is better than his defense's rankings the last few years and worse than his league reputation as a genius innovator.

[MadScientist]

I'd say Dom's biggest flaw is how he hides (or rather fails to hide) deficiencies. He can do good things with a couple of stars and the rest solid if unspectacular, but when there is a hole, it doesn't get covered well. It seems other defenses get by with a limited player on defense better than the Packers.

Last year they had a hole at safety and the defense was a mess. This year started with holes at NT and ILB. Guion improved to shore up the line, but Jones and Hawk were weak links and the defense was bleeding yards. Now that they are on the bench most of the time, the defense looks much better. Yes they failed at some tackles yesterday, but I won't put Bell or Gronk running over people on Dom. I'll take 320 yards and 21 points against NE any time (even in February).

Bottom line is that I would put Dom as an above average DC for his scheming abilities. He is not outstanding because he can't cover up weaker players.

[Bretsky]

So dunderdummy has put together 2 decent games in the last 4... makes me wonder what his motivation is - such as, are TT and MM holding his family hostage and actually forcing him to do his job??

Doing his job for the sake of doing his job doesn't make sense, b/c afterall - he is dunderdummy. Have to assume he's got a gun to his head in some way

--------------------------------------------------------------

Haven't looked at the game yet though... saw some of the 4th quarter - I turned it on, and the first 5 plays I saw were NE ramming it down our throats for 50+ yds and a TD, lol...

My brother sent me a text about 1/2 way thru the 2nd quarter and said, "... here comes the 2-4, gonna get ugly now"; and then 3 minutes later, he texted, "... NE TD".

Still, the stats look good, and they kept the score down... Neal's sack near the end saved the day - great play by Neal. I'll look at the game tomorrow.

I came in here thinking even flippin wist has to give him credit for this game. Dom was Domgenius against NE and from what I can see he didn't bracket coverage Gronk at all...and no Gronk didn't get an infinite number of TD's. You can't lose...when the D sux it's all on Dom and when they are great it's the players.

GB has been a better defense since Clay moved to ILB and Dom no longer looks crippled by the pathetic safety play he's had the past few years. This is the first year in a while he has a chance.

[wist43]

I came in here thinking even flippin wist has to give him credit for this game. Dom was Domgenius against NE and from what I can see he didn't bracket coverage Gronk at all...and no Gronk didn't get an infinite number of TD's. You can't lose...when the D sux it's all on Dom and when they are great it's the players.

GB has been a better defense since Clay moved to ILB and Dom no longer looks crippled by the pathetic safety play he's had the past few years. This is the first year in a while he has a chance.

I give credit to dunderdummy for doing what he should have been doing for at least the 3+ years - that doesn't buy him a pass for all of the misery he is responsible for visiting upon us in that time.

As I've said for a few years now - I like the players, and think we can have at least an effective defense if they are used properly. Obviously we have not had an effective defense for the last 3+ years - and since it seems obvious to me we have a decent amount of talent, doesn't it stand to reason that our failings then would have to be dunderdummy's doing??

He is using the players the way I've stated they needed to be used, and we are realizing some success. He may not have bracketed Gronk (I don't know, I'll have to look at the game - plan to watch it with my brother tomorrow), but he's played the front 6/7 the way I've been calling for, and the results have been much, much better.

To me it's common sense - if you're more talented at DL than you are LB; and if your greatest weakness on defense is at ILB - why in heavens name would anyone design a defense to ensure that those weaknesses are on the field full-time, while the more talented players languish on the sideline?? To me, it was obvious that they needed to go to the 3-3 a long time ago.

[Bretsky]

I give credit to dunderdummy for doing what he should have been doing for at least the 3+ years - that doesn't buy him a pass for all of the misery he is responsible for visiting upon us in that time.

As I've said for a few years now - I like the players, and think we can have at least an effective defense if they are used properly. Obviously we have not had an effective defense for the last 3+ years - and since it seems obvious to me we have a decent amount of talent, doesn't it stand to reason that our failings then would have to be dunderdummy's doing??

He is using the players the way I've stated they needed to be used, and we are realizing some success. .

WHO have our safeties been and our ILB's been the three years prior to this one
To blankly say we have the talent while ignoring the improvements TT has given us this year does not seem at all fair
We still have zero's at ILB....but no Dom has more pass rushers, a real safety, and the flexibility to move Clay inside

[wist43]

WHO have our safeties been and our ILB's been the three years prior to this one
To blankly say we have the talent while ignoring the improvements TT has given us this year does not seem at all fair
We still have zero's at ILB....but no Dom has more pass rushers, a real safety, and the flexibility to move Clay inside

HaHa cleaned up Safety - that still would have been an issue to some extent the past few years... that is largely on TT; but dunderdummy surely could have made less of a mess of it.

Our front seven has been good talent wise for a few years now - the problem has been in how dunderdummy used them. The Jumbo 2-4 was a disaster, and the fact that he ran the 2-4 75% of the time has been the largest issue our defense has faced in the previous 3 years.

It has only been this year when MM supposedly got involved in the offseason that dunderdummy has been running 3-4 and 3-3, and predictably the results have been much better.

That said, given the talent he had available to him the last few years he could have used them to much better effect, but he insisted on run the 2-4 and misusing players. He had Perry at LB, when Perry was clearly a fish out of water out there; he ran the 2-4 in base situations all the time; he gameplanned to have Brad Jones and Hawk on the field 24/7, when he could have been mixing his fronts with players like Raji, Neal, Perry, Jolly, Pickett, Daniels, et al... instead of establishing a solid rotation based on situation, he played the 2-4 and teams not only ran over us, they passed thru us like swiss cheese.

And those facts are before anyone begins to look at the embarrassing playoff losses in which our defense was embarrassed multiple times. All of that is on Capers.

[Maxie the Taxi]

HaHa cleaned up Safety - that still would have been an issue to some extent the past few years... that is largely on TT; but dunderdummy surely could have made less of a mess of it.

Our front seven has been good talent wise for a few years now - the problem has been in how dunderdummy used them. The Jumbo 2-4 was a disaster, and the fact that he ran the 2-4 75% of the time has been the largest issue our defense has faced in the previous 3 years.

It has only been this year when MM supposedly got involved in the offseason that dunderdummy has been running 3-4 and 3-3, and predictably the results have been much better.

That said, given the talent he had available to him the last few years he could have used them to much better effect, but he insisted on run the 2-4 and misusing players. He had Perry at LB, when Perry was clearly a fish out of water out there; he ran the 2-4 in base situations all the time; he gameplanned to have Brad Jones and Hawk on the field 24/7, when he could have been mixing his fronts with players like Raji, Neal, Perry, Jolly, Pickett, Daniels, et al... instead of establishing a solid rotation based on situation, he played the 2-4 and teams not only ran over us, they passed thru us like swiss cheese.

And those facts are before anyone begins to look at the embarrassing playoff losses in which our defense was embarrassed multiple times. All of that is on Capers.

Swiss cheese didn't used to pass thru me like it does nowadays. Maybe Dom's just getting old.

[mraynrand]

Health is a big factor here

ding! winner.