WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF DOM CAPERS

[wist43]

Okay, here's the FF version of going thru the game...

Didn't really break anything down - tried to make an observation here and there, but for the most part I just denoted alignment, down/distance, personnel, and result.

One thing that stood out to me was Barrington - he was down right studly at times... loved his play at ILB, and hope he is now a fixture.

The other thing that stood out to me was the amount of 2-4 dunderdummy played in the 1st half. We were starting to bleed in the 2nd Quarter running the 2-4, but dunderdummy did the right thing and abandoned it in the 2nd half.

We were starting to bleed running the 2-4, but NE didn't take full advantage by the fact that they ran the ball very little. By the end of game NE had 18 rushing attempts (17 really - Brady kneel down) and 35 passing attempts - penalties notwithstanding.

So out of 55 snaps (some penalties that wiped plays out included), dunderdummy ran the following alignments:

3-4, 23 times
2-4, 14 times
3-3, 5 times
3-2 dime, 3 times
2-3 dime, 7 times
4-3, 1 time
4-2, 1 time
Goal line defense (5 down linemen), 1 time

Gronk was kept in check with man coverage and a lot of zone help. It was exactly the type of coverage that I called for. He did manage to shake loose a couple of times, and on a couple of those he was lined up outside the numbers. Outstanding job on Gronk throughout the game.

When dunderdummy was in the 2-4, NE should have run the ball, but they didn't - and in all honesty, dunderdummy did not run his usual 2-4, he crowded the LOS, filled gaps, and Barrington played lightyears better than anyone we've had at ILB in a long, long time. That said, NE did realize most of their success against the 2-4 when dunderdummy did run it... most notably in the 2nd Quarter.

Dunderdummy did then adjust and he only ran the 2-4 1 time in the 2nd half. He did run some 2 man lines in the Dime, but he brought pressure on those snaps, and on several occassions had both Matthews and Peppers coming on the blitz from ILB positions. Excellent mixing of the blitz.

In the 2nd half, dunderdummy ran the 3-4 predominately - even running against 4 WR's and Gronk, i.e. no RB's on the field.

I give dunderdummy a lot of credit for a good game plan - abandoning the 2-4 when it was beginning to hemorrhage in the 2nd Quarter, and mixing fronts and blitzes very effectively. At the same time, he did not vary his coverage much - and given that the coverage was very effective, i.e. man up on Gronk with zone help, and excellent zone play underneath, dunderdummy made the right calls throughout the game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

All of that said - I do not trust dunderdummy, and will never trust dunderdummy

[woodbuck27]

Tell ya what... I'm gonna watch the game tonight - I'll note every defensive down, and give you a run down of personnel, alignment, down and distance, and result.

How's that??

http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/s...ent-win-120114


Packers report card: Offense outperforms Patriots in statement win

Paul Imig ... FOX Sports Wisconsin

DEC 01, 2014 1:00p ET

I watched the game again today. One player really stood out to me on our 'D'

That was Clay Matthews. He was flying all over. I felt he had the best game for us on the 'D'.

AJ Hawk was out and Sam Barrington in and that move helped the 'D'.

Our secondary is small. I'll be happy when TT gets CB's on board that are taller, fast and more physical. I realize that's a difficult task.

The Packers still have lots to be desired tackling (tackling high doesn't cut it) and often the secondary play receivers too soft or too up and personal near the LOS and get beat early. Tramon Williams didn't have the game I originally thought he had. In fairness to him and our secondary. NE has very quick WR's in LaFell and Edelman.

The front of the 'D' just did enough to keep Tom Brady off balance.

Tom Brady overall still had a solid effort with a QBR > 100. He remains a solid MVP candidate.

MM has lots of work to do with his team to get it to the Super Bowl. This win all the same has to be a real confidence booster and that's good as long as the packers don't rest on it for any length of time.

GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

Gronk was kept in check with man coverage and a lot of zone help. It was exactly the type of coverage that I called for. He did manage to shake loose a couple of times, and on a couple of those he was lined up outside the numbers. Outstanding job on Gronk throughout the game.

McGinn: Unofficially, here were the top five primary defenders on TE Rob Gronkowski's 31 routes: Morgan Burnett (nine), Clinton-Dix (seven), Micah Hyde (four), Matthews (four) and Davon House (three).

Packers played single high safety for almost the entire game. What zone support was over the top if it was single-safety?

From Tramon Williams: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...284287911.html

Surprisingly, the Packers did not direct extra attention Gronkowski's way. Williams said the plan was to stick to their defense, their principles — defensive coordinator Dom Capers didn't want to bracket "Gronk" with extra defenders. With Brady so skilled at creating advantageous matchups, at making pedestrian receivers seem like All-Pros, the Packers played a lot of man-to-man coverage and simplified the thinking on the back end.

[woodbuck27]

McGinn: Unofficially, here were the top five primary defenders on TE Rob Gronkowski's 31 routes: Morgan Burnett (nine), Clinton-Dix (seven), Micah Hyde (four), Matthews (four) and Davon House (three).

Packers played single high safety for almost the entire game. What zone support was over the top if it was single-safety?

From Tramon Williams: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...284287911.html

That makes sense to me.

The MVP of that team isn't Rob Grokowski rather it's Tom Brady.

Play it 11 on 11 and don't double up on Gronk and leave 9 on 10.

[wist43]

McGinn: Unofficially, here were the top five primary defenders on TE Rob Gronkowski's 31 routes: Morgan Burnett (nine), Clinton-Dix (seven), Micah Hyde (four), Matthews (four) and Davon House (three).

Packers played single high safety for almost the entire game. What zone support was over the top if it was single-safety?

From Tramon Williams: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...284287911.html

Zone support was underneath... many times Gronk was manned up with zone support underneath. Yes we were in single high safety most of the game, and Gronk was passed along to the safety very effectively when we were not in man against him.

Overall they did an outstanding job of containing Gronk... I haven't watched a lot of NE this year, not sure how often they line him up outside the numbers, but they did that several times against us, and he had some catches out there. I can only suspect that they were trying to free him up from all the traffic and interference he was encountering inside the numbers. Very effective job on Gronk.

Oddly, I saw Matthews outside covering a WR... WTF?? lol... It looked as if dunderdummy simply did not want to change out of base personnel - I suspect due to any confusion that might result from having so much changeover in personnel from snap to snap - we did not substitute very liberally in this game, and think that helped a lot. Snap in, snap out, we had our best players on the field - no Brad Jones, less Hawk; more Neal, more Perry, more D. Jones...

Capers played base 3-4 most of the 2nd half, regardless of offensive personnel. As I mentioned, he was even in base 3-4 against 4 wides and Gronk.

[Bretsky]

Zone support was underneath... many times Gronk was manned up with zone support underneath. Yes we were in single high safety most of the game, and Gronk was passed along to the safety very effectively when we were not in man against him.

Overall they did an outstanding job of containing Gronk... I haven't watched a lot of NE this year, not sure how often they line him up outside the numbers, but they did that several times against us, and he had some catches out there. I can only suspect that they were trying to free him up from all the traffic and interference he was encountering inside the numbers. Very effective job on Gronk.

Oddly, I saw Matthews outside covering a WR... WTF?? lol... It looked as if dunderdummy simply did not want to change out of base personnel - I suspect due to any confusion that might result from having so much changeover in personnel from snap to snap - we did not substitute very liberally in this game, and think that helped a lot. Snap in, snap out, we had our best players on the field - no Brad Jones, less Hawk; more Neal, more Perry, more D. Jones...

Capers played base 3-4 most of the 2nd half, regardless of offensive personnel. As I mentioned, he was even in base 3-4 against 4 wides and Gronk.

Come on man; just set yourself free and admit you were completely wrong and off base in the way you noted Dom would call this game and melt down. Dom called a fabulous game and outsmarted Josh McDaniels.

Gronk didn't score 6 plus TD's as you noted, and IMO Capers didn't just do what you told him to by bracketing Gronk the entire game.

We might need to have a packerrats session with you to rid yourself of the Dom Demons )

[Bretsky]

For years I've been saying this defense would be better if they'd just stay healthy. Dom finally took my advice and look at the result. You're welcome guys.

This, along with the addition of HaHa and Julius, is about the best logic on why the defense is getting better the thread has offered.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd think a lot more of Dom Capers if he was the defensive coordinator for two Super Bowl champions at the end of the year.

[wist43]

Come on man; just set yourself free and admit you were completely wrong and off base in the way you noted Dom would call this game and melt down. Dom called a fabulous game and outsmarted Josh McDaniels.

Gronk didn't score 6 plus TD's as you noted, and IMO Capers didn't just do what you told him to by bracketing Gronk the entire game.

We might need to have a packerrats session with you to rid yourself of the Dom Demons )

What is with you guys... good grief. He did call the game largely the way I've been calling for, and he did bracket Gronk - not every play, but it's impossible to do the same thing play after play. You guys are so determined to poke me in the eye, that if 1 single play doesn't fit my narrative you're calling shenanigans on me... get over it.

I said Dom called a good game. I went thru the game, quickly I admit, but from what I saw I liked just about everything he did... I still don't trust the guy, and never will - I know his history, and I know he can't be trusted; but for a 1 game deal, for a few game stretch?? He's shown marked improvement.

I've been saying all along that I like the players - if Dom can get out of his own way long enough, I think we have the talent to make a run at a title. Heretofore I haven't been in the least optimistic that could happen b/c of Dom's track record and recent history, but if he can keep his shit together for another 7 games, we have a decent shot - but that's a big IF.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Wist:

It looked as if dunderdummy simply did not want to change out of base personnel - I suspect due to any confusion that might result from having so much changeover in personnel from snap to snap - we did not substitute very liberally in this game, and think that helped a lot. Snap in, snap out, we had our best players on the field - no Brad Jones, less Hawk; more Neal, more Perry, more D. Jones...

Capers:

“I would say it would vary from week to week,” Capers said. “Again, based off what our opponent is doing, you’ll see different personnel groups and different people involved in those. It could change from one week to the next based on your injury situation, who’s available. The purpose is to try to get your best 11 people against who they put out there and the match-ups.”

It seems the common goal is to get the best 11 players on the field at any one time. I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.

[wist43]

Wist:


Capers:


It seems the common goal is to get the best 11 players on the field at any one time. I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.

Well, 4 wides and Matthews lined up as a cornerback?? Even I wouldn't have done that, lol...

There were also many occasions in which Barrington was on the field - which I counted as a 3-4, but he was actually lined up 10 yds off the slot receiver. He wasn't in man coverage, but that is where he lined up. He played the underneath zone between the hash and the numbers, ala Cam Chancellor.

Against NE, we were very effective against their 3 and 4 WR packages out of the base - I have argued we should have been playing more base against 3 WR sets, but I would have dumped Hawk for a DB against the 4 WR sets NE showed. Regardless, anything is better than that static, or jumbo 2-4 Capers used to run.

NE was able to get the ball moving against the 2-4, but dunderdummy 1) played tight coverage behind it, 2) wasn't entirely static in his presnap movement, and 3) didn't stay with it when they began to get the better of it. All 3 of those conditions have been sorely lacking for over 3 years now.

I hate to think there is hope - b/c dunderdummy has such an abysmal track record. For all we know, he'll behave himself all the way to the Superbowl, and then on Super Sunday he'll revert back to his static 2-4 and stab us in the heart. No matter that he did a good job in this game - and he did - he simply cannot be trusted, ever.

[Fritz]

Okay, here's the FF version of going thru the game...

Didn't really break anything down - tried to make an observation here and there, but for the most part I just denoted alignment, down/distance, personnel, and result.

One thing that stood out to me was Barrington - he was down right studly at times... loved his play at ILB, and hope he is now a fixture.

The other thing that stood out to me was the amount of 2-4 dunderdummy played in the 1st half. We were starting to bleed in the 2nd Quarter running the 2-4, but dunderdummy did the right thing and abandoned it in the 2nd half.

We were starting to bleed running the 2-4, but NE didn't take full advantage by the fact that they ran the ball very little. By the end of game NE had 18 rushing attempts (17 really - Brady kneel down) and 35 passing attempts - penalties notwithstanding.

So out of 55 snaps (some penalties that wiped plays out included), dunderdummy ran the following alignments:

3-4, 23 times
2-4, 14 times
3-3, 5 times
3-2 dime, 3 times
2-3 dime, 7 times
4-3, 1 time
4-2, 1 time
Goal line defense (5 down linemen), 1 time

Gronk was kept in check with man coverage and a lot of zone help. It was exactly the type of coverage that I called for. He did manage to shake loose a couple of times, and on a couple of those he was lined up outside the numbers. Outstanding job on Gronk throughout the game.

When dunderdummy was in the 2-4, NE should have run the ball, but they didn't - and in all honesty, dunderdummy did not run his usual 2-4, he crowded the LOS, filled gaps, and Barrington played lightyears better than anyone we've had at ILB in a long, long time. That said, NE did realize most of their success against the 2-4 when dunderdummy did run it... most notably in the 2nd Quarter.

Dunderdummy did then adjust and he only ran the 2-4 1 time in the 2nd half. He did run some 2 man lines in the Dime, but he brought pressure on those snaps, and on several occassions had both Matthews and Peppers coming on the blitz from ILB positions. Excellent mixing of the blitz.

In the 2nd half, dunderdummy ran the 3-4 predominately - even running against 4 WR's and Gronk, i.e. no RB's on the field.

I give dunderdummy a lot of credit for a good game plan - abandoning the 2-4 when it was beginning to hemorrhage in the 2nd Quarter, and mixing fronts and blitzes very effectively. At the same time, he did not vary his coverage much - and given that the coverage was very effective, i.e. man up on Gronk with zone help, and excellent zone play underneath, dunderdummy made the right calls throughout the game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

All of that said - I do not trust dunderdummy, and will never trust dunderdummy

When you look at the above underlined sections, it's just as we knew, and as I posted earlier in another thread -

On playing Gronkowski - you claim above that the Packers played him just as you called for - I wrote:

"As far as I could tell, Capers refused to double or bracket Gronk, yet somehow, miraculously, the Patriots only scored 21, and I don't think Gronk scored those three touchdowns you were so sure he'd get."

So even though no one - not here, not at the JSO, not even the players who played the game (see Tramon Williams's quote from PB's post) - except you is maintaining that the Packers doubled Gronk, by your line of "reasoning," by golly, they actually did.

On how you'd manage to not give credit - I wrote:

"But don't forget to trot out your old schtick about how, really, the other team screwed it up. In this case, I imagine you'll say that if Belichek had run the ball lots more, the Patriots would've surely won."

Sure enough, there you go again - see the above underlined section.


Ding ding ding ding ding! Winner winner chicken dinner!

You live in one strange universe.

[wist43]

When you look at the above underlined sections, it's just as we knew, and as I posted earlier in another thread -

On playing Gronkowski - you claim above that the Packers played him just as you called for - I wrote:

"As far as I could tell, Capers refused to double or bracket Gronk, yet somehow, miraculously, the Patriots only scored 21, and I don't think Gronk scored those three touchdowns you were so sure he'd get."

So even though no one - not here, not at the JSO, not even the players who played the game (see Tramon Williams's quote from PB's post) - except you is maintaining that the Packers doubled Gronk, by your line of "reasoning," by golly, they actually did.

On how you'd manage to not give credit - I wrote:

"But don't forget to trot out your old schtick about how, really, the other team screwed it up. In this case, I imagine you'll say that if Belichek had run the ball lots more, the Patriots would've surely won."

Sure enough, there you go again - see the above underlined section.


Ding ding ding ding ding! Winner winner chicken dinner!

You live in one strange universe.

"As far as I can tell..." you don't understand the first thing about football or strategy - so you really don't have much standing to critique anything I've said.

We did double Gronk a lot; with man coverage and zone help. Doubling a receiver doesn't mean that 2 guys line up head on the guy and both run with him at the snap, ala a gunner on punt coverage.

As for running the ball - it is our achilles heel. I think most people expected NE to run the ball more - Dom played the 3-4 most of the time, regardless of offensive personnel, but NE didn't test it enough for anyone to know if they could have effectively controlled the ball on the ground. It is what it is... if I were them, I would have run the ball more, and would have come in with a run-heavy gameplan.

So since you are taking umbrage with my arguments - I assume you would have preferred that dunderdummy run the 2-4 the whole game?? Or that they should have played Brad Jones and Hawk the whole game?? Or that they shouldn't have accounted for Gronk with bracketed and over the top coverage??

I find it amazing that you guys are so offended by good results. If you had your way, we'd still be running the 2-4 24/7, and you'd be attacking me b/c I deign to attack the approach that is leading to poor performance - how dare anyone question the Gods that reside at 1265??

[RashanGary]

Wist,

Capers does different things because he has different players. The addition of Peppers and the growth of Neal/Perry into their new roles means Capers can do different things. I'm pretty sure he wanted to do better than last year too. It's the NFL. If you get a championship every few years, you're doing ducking great.

[channtheman]

Wist,

Capers does different things because he has different players. The addition of Peppers and the growth of Neal/Perry into their new roles means Capers can do different things. I'm pretty sure he wanted to do better than last year too. It's the NFL. If you get a championship every few years, you're doing ducking great.

Ducking great indeed.

[George Cumby]

Is it just me or does reading this thread make anyone else feel like they are wandering the desert with Moses?

[Bossman641]

He wouldn't even give me Peppers as OLB in the 2-4 playing on the line as a DE. Now he must have counted him as a down lineman I think for this week's game.

I remember that conversation. As far a I can tell, if Peppers and Perry line up as the OLB in a 2-4 and it works, Wist counts that as crowding the line and attacking the LOS (regardless of whether Perry and Peppers are in a 2 or 3 point stance). If it doesn't work, it's an example of dunderdummy conceding the run and running his tired old 2-4.

[Zool]

Is it just me or does reading this thread make anyone else feel like they are wandering the desert with Moses?

More like standing on a street corner with someone screaming at the top of their lungs about the end of days.

[Fritz]

McGinn: Unofficially, here were the top five primary defenders on TE Rob Gronkowski's 31 routes: Morgan Burnett (nine), Clinton-Dix (seven), Micah Hyde (four), Matthews (four) and Davon House (three).

Packers played single high safety for almost the entire game. What zone support was over the top if it was single-safety?

From Tramon Williams: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...284287911.html

Wist, I've never claimed to be an expert football analyst. But when Tramon Williams says there was not extra help, and the JSO supports that, and my own (limited) knowledge supports that, then it's hard for me to just go along with your claim.

What I'm contending is that you have created a narrative that suits you, and you either ignore or bend any evidence that contradicts your set-in-concrete views. This is something most of us do, to some extent, but you take it to extremes that are hard to stomach.

I think I'll just refrain from commenting any further on your posts. Life's too short.

[vince]

This from the Official Packers-Pats Discussion Thread

Gronk could have 23 catches for 289 yds, and 6 TD's.
...
Brady will throw for at least 5 TD's against Capers.
...
I looked at an early line that had us favored by 3, but I don't buy that at all - NE is very well coached, and we have the eternal liability that is dunderdummy... I'll be shocked if we win this game.
...
I expect this game will look very much like the New Orleans game. Brees threw for 311 yds and 3 TDs, and they ran for 194 yds.
...
You guys need to take the rose colored glasses off and look at the MO of dunderdummy... you guys are such homers, lol
...
Like dunderdummy has any intention whatsoever of covering anybody??
...
Whether we are in base, nickel, or dime... dunderdummy will let receivers run wide open all over the field - it's what he does.
...
The Pats won't afford us the same courtesy - they'll cover everyone short tight and make Rodgers hold the ball.
...
Talentwise - I think we can win this game; coaching on the other hand... we're way outclassed.
...
They'll have their way with dunderdummy - complete mismatch in terms of coaching.
...
I wish I owned every Patriot in fanstasy this week.
...
dunderdummy does so many things that are unsound, that it compounds the mess we have at ILB.
...
The Vikings just held us to 24 pts... if we score 24 against the Pats, we'll get blown out.
...
We have no identity on defense, and we never will as long as dunderdummy is our DC.
...
And yes, I"m assuming a late Packer TD to make it semi-respectable... I simply don't think Capers is any match for a good offense.
...
Dunderdummy has stated openly how much of a pussy he is, i.e. that elite QB's must not be challenged in any way. He will be content to sit back and let Brady pick us apart all day long...
...
You guys don't want to look at reality - you'd rather shoot the messenger.

In the same thread, you also went on to rip the OL on the heels of a strong performance both run and pass blocking against Minnesota - on top of a strong run of dominating performances which demonstrates they're shaping into one of the top lines in the league.

Then Fritz prophesizes about your likely retorts before they're even made and you comically fall right into form, ignoring facts, twisting some, and making up others .. and then this gem.

You guys just hate that I'm right, lol...

I would expect that out of the rabble - but I expect a little more intellectual honesty out of you ayn

And you wonder why the homers and rabble take you on with these proclamations. You can only ignore for so many months/years before it's time for a calling-out, so I'm gonna follow Fritz' lead.

Wist you really are a broken record of doom and gloom followed by selective reasoning to support your perspectives, no matter how wrong or misguided.

The one that sticks out to me was when you proclaimed with authority that the Packers were minimum of two years away from being "remotely competitive" - the offseason before they won the Super Bowl.

The (un)funny thing is you actually believe yourself wist. Denial is a powerful force I see.

It's really tough to win it all, but I'd bet my left nut that if the Packers come up short somehow, you'll once again step up on your perch and proclaim how you've been right all along - and the NFL defensive coordinator who has dedicated pretty much every waking minute of his adult life to scheming and coaching some of the best players in the world to stop some other of the best players in the world can't hold your jock or that of the neighborhood Pop Warner coach when it comes to understanding football.

Based on some of the responses you get to your posts, I don't think I'm alone when I say ... It really does get old man. Maybe you exaggerate to make your point (the same one over and over and over and over. I hope you have a shortcut set up for dunderdummy because you've had to have worn out a few D's on the ol keyboard by now), but reread those quotes of yours. You'd have been hard-pressed to have been more wrong about the game - and then to make it worse you try to twist things around and proclaim that you were right. Dunder finally listened. Whoda thunkit. Everyone's wrong a lot, but you're just so far out of touch not seeing it that I don't even know what else to say.