You completely missed my point. I pointed out that QBs who threw for amazing TD totals previously ALWAYS had HOF caliber talent around them. Marino, Fouts, Kelly, etc...they all had ELITE TALENT to work with. Are you trying to actually argue that any of the guys Favre had around him in the mid 1990s were ELITE? I never said these guys were devoid of ability...they are all good to very good players. However, most have no claim whatsoever to being elite.Originally Posted by Patler
You downplay Favre's TDs by saying he threw a bunch of dumb INTs. I would beg to differ...during those MVP years. His INT totals those years (~14) weren't much different from those put up by HOF guys in the same era like Marino/Elway (~14) or Montana/Aikman (~12)...who all had WAY MORE TALENT ON THE OFFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL TO WORK WITH. (except for maybe Elway, who also toiled with more modest talent typically) So did all QBs just throw a bunch of stupid INTs all the time?
I have respect for Brooks, Levens and the rest. They were team players for the most part...not sure I can say that of Jackson. They sacrificed for the team and played well within the scheme Holmgren and his staff developed. However, I have more respect for Ron Wolf. He's the one who laments the talent he put around Favre during his era in Green Bay...and what I always thought he meant was a combination of ELITE talent procured and just overall depth in general. There weren't a lot of Pro Bowls from that group of skill position players...despite playing on a league leading offense led by a MVP caliber QB. I would argue that is evidence of my point that the talent wasn't close to being elite by and large.
Brooks and Bennett? Neither were ever picked for a Pro Bowl. Good players...but not close to elite. Levens and Freeman each had only one selection. Good players who each had some excellent seasons...but again not what I would consider close to the elite category. Chmura is the first guy who you might be able to argue was elite. I would not agree with that assessment, but I can see the argument. Chmura never caught more than 7 TD passes in a season. Keith Jackson, a true All-Pro talent at TE who walked into Green Bay in the declining years of his career, proved to be a far more impactful receiving TE while posting 40 receptions and 10 TDs. Chmura was always more impressive as a blocker to me. He got three Pro Bowl nods. IMO he was a very good player...not elite, but a guy you certainly want on your team. Jackson did earn a Pro Bowl selection for his one real season in Green Bay...after he finally decided to show up.
Keith Jackson is the only true All-Pro talent of any of these guys...he was an elite player career-wise, although he may not have been that by the time he reached Green Bay. He and Chmura did give Favre some great talent at TE. The rest were very fortunate to play with Favre and within the dominant offensive system devised by Holmgren and put into practice by coaches such as Andy Reid and Jon Gruden. They were not elite players independently...it would be downright foolish to argue that. However, they were strong together as a team when led by a gunslinger who gave them the confidence that they could do more than they probably otherwise figured they could.
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