MVP debate: Who's most deserving? A.Rodgers - JJ Watt - T.Brady - P.Manning - D.Murray?

[woodbuck27]

Football Outsiders has Dallas as the 22nd Defense. Maybe Patler has a point about Romo.

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics...sition-leaders

See where Aaron Rodgers is on this graph. See where Tony Romo is on the same graph?

Where's Peyton Manning and Tom Brady?

Where's Ben Roethlisberger placed?

Any surprizes there?

I see this fact in the 2014 Season and compared to all NFL QB's:

Aaron Rodgers is way out in front or as measured here (at least 22.73 % better) than any other NFL QB.

[Cheesehead Craig]

In response to 3irty1's point about the top QBs being more valuable than 2 or 3 Watts, you claim that two Watts would make a Defense elite.



My point is that two Watt's don't make a defense elite and then you STILL need help from the offense to have a winning record. This all supports 3irty1's point.

Well MY point is that you're a weenie head.

[woodbuck27]

Looking at Football Outsiders analysis of the season for DE's It's very clear that JJ Watt dominates at his position:

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics...sition-leaders

[vince]

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics...sition-leaders

See where Aaron Rodgers is on this graph. See where Tony Romo is on the same graph?

Where's Peyton Manning and Tom Brady?

Where's Ben Roethlisberger placed?

Any surprizes there?

I see this fact in the 2014 Season and compared to all NFL QB's:

Aaron Rodgers is way out in front or as measured here (at least 22.73 % better) than any other NFL QB.

Yep. And if you filter the players by ALL you can see where Watt falls on the scale as well. That's about the best evidence there is as to who the MVP is this year. It's a QB driven game. Watt can run away with the DPOY award this year. He deserves it. Rodgers deserves the MVP hands down.

[woodbuck27]

Yep. And if you filter the players by ALL you can see where Watt falls on the scale as well. That's about the best evidence there is as to who the MVP is this year. It's a QB driven game. Watt can run away with the DPOY award this year. He deserves it. Rodgers deserves the MVP hands down.

You've got it Vince.

That's very convincing to us but what about those buying into the JJ Watt chatter!?

I doubt their looking to be objective in terms of analysis.

[RashanGary]

The way the NFL game is played, I'd give it to the third best QB every year over the best player at another position. The entire pace and flow of an offense is set by the QB. Pace and flow matter. It's a league dominated by the pass and the QB makes every pass. It's the most important position. If you take every player in the league and put them in a draft, QB goes first. It's luck or Rodgers #1 and #2. For me it's AR hands down and that has nothing to do with the packers. That has to do with value as it relates to winning football games in the NFL. Most impressive player...:. JJ Watt. Value to winning, Aaron Rodgers. Case closed.

[mraynrand]

Yep. And if you filter the players by ALL you can see where Watt falls on the scale as well. That's about the best evidence there is as to who the MVP is this year. It's a QB driven game. Watt can run away with the DPOY award this year. He deserves it. Rodgers deserves the MVP hands down.

Watt is valuable in that he can sometimes impact the most important player on the field - the QB. If your QB's got nothing, you are going to lose, no matter who you have on defense. Ask Arizona. Ask Cleveland. Ask Buddy Ryan (LOL).

[vince]

Watt was far more "valuable" this year when he played against the worst/most inexperienced QB's and OL's in the league. 10 of his 20.5 sacks and 3 of his 4 forced fumbles against Ten and Jax.

He's the most disruptive defensive player in the league - but he's not the MVP.

Romo's closer to Rodgers this year but he's not really close either. Romo's been slightly more efficient than Rodgers but only once did he eclipse 300 yards passing this year - against Watt's Texans interestingly enough. Rodgers went over 300 7 times. His stats would have been even better had he not blown teams right off the field before halftime so often.

Romo - 34 TD's against 9 INT's
Rodgers - 38 TDs and 5 INTs

Add the signature wins on top of the blowouts and historical stretch in Nov. and there's no one in the ballpark.

[denverYooper]

Watt is valuable in that he can sometimes impact the most important player on the field - the QB. If your QB's got nothing, you are going to lose, no matter who you have on defense. Ask Arizona. Ask Cleveland. Ask Buddy Ryan (LOL).

That Browns-Colts game was fun to watch. Cleveland's defense was all over Luck and playing as hard and as well as I've seen a defense play this year. They kept getting hung out to dry by Hoyer and I was just fascinated to find out if they could continue giving the ball back to Luck and keep getting the same results. It didn't end well.

You put Wilson at QB there and the Browns win that game by 30.

[Pugger]

The 2014 Rams would like a word with you. They have four first round picks on the D line and dominate the LOS. But they are 6-10.

Without a QB you just don't win. AZ got most of their wins with Palmer (7-0) and Stanton but once these 2 guys were lost they were basically screwed. I suspect had Palmer not got hurt AZ might be the NFCW champas and the #1 seed instead of Seattle. Because this is a QB driven league the best QB in the playoffs will win the MVP. I have stated this before but in 2009 Brees had better stats than Manning but the Saints didn't win their division so PM won it much to the consternation of NO fans.

[Guiness]

Yep. And if you filter the players by ALL you can see where Watt falls on the scale as well. That's about the best evidence there is as to who the MVP is this year. It's a QB driven game. Watt can run away with the DPOY award this year. He deserves it. Rodgers deserves the MVP hands down.

The extent to which Watt is out front of his peers is astounding though, and the fact that it seems he's doing it alone - I could only find one other Texan on the charts, CB J. Joseph. The other player who dominated his position was Bell at the oh-so devalued RB position.

It remains true, however, the state of the league dictates that the QB that had the best season is going to be the league MVP. I'll renew the call for an award specific to the position, à la Cy Young award.

[vince]

Because this is a QB driven league the best QB in the playoffs will win the MVP. I have stated this before but in 2009 Brees had better stats than Manning but the Saints didn't win their division so PM won it much to the consternation of NO fans.

50 members of the media will vote on the 2014 Associated Press NFL Most Valuable Player (MVP) award before the playoffs start on January 3.

.

Edit - Oops. I think I misinterpreted what you were saying there Pugger. Sorry about that.

[vince]

The extent to which Watt is out front of his peers is astounding though, and the fact that it seems he's doing it alone - I could only find one other Texan on the charts, CB J. Joseph. The other player who dominated his position was Bell at the oh-so devalued RB position.

Watt is basically twice as valuable as any other DE...and Rodgers is twice as valuable (according to this metric) as Watt.

[mraynrand]

That Browns-Colts game was fun to watch. Cleveland's defense was all over Luck and playing as hard and as well as I've seen a defense play this year. They kept getting hung out to dry by Hoyer and I was just fascinated to find out if they could continue giving the ball back to Luck and keep getting the same results. It didn't end well.

You put Wilson at QB there and the Browns win that game by 30.

That Browns-Colts game was the dagger for the Brown's season, because the defense knew there was no way they could play well enough to carry that offense.

[vince]

Aikman just said something about Romo that perfectly encapsulates the Romo-Rodgers comparison. He said Romo's going to do "what he's done all year," rely on his running game for success. Conversely, the Packers running game relies on Rodgers to shift defenses to their advantage for success.

[Pugger]

I'll disagree with this. You put 2 JJ Watts on the same DL with the stats he has (not including his offensive work) and you have an elite defense and that alone would get you 12 wins with an average QB and offense with the pressure and run stopping ability he has. You put 3 on the DL, forget about opponents having any offense.

But you still need a QB. Just ask AZ. They had a great D that got worn down because their offense was so anemic.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...j-watt-for-mvp

NFL MVP Final Projection: Aaron Rodgers will edge J.J. Watt for MVP

By: John Breech | CBSSports.com

December 31, 2014 3:30 am ET

[Pugger]

Check out this article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...all-of-fame-is

The guy not only argues that Paul Hornung didn't deserve being named MVP in 1961, but that Hornung is the least deserving player in the NFL Hall of Fame.

Classic case of letting stats get in the way of "drama."

If any RB should have won that MVP that year it should have been Jimmy Taylor.

[Pugger]

Watt was far more "valuable" this year when he played against the worst/most inexperienced QB's and OL's in the league. 10 of his 20.5 sacks and 3 of his 4 forced fumbles against Ten and Jax.

He's the most disruptive defensive player in the league - but he's not the MVP.

Romo's closer to Rodgers this year but he's not really close either. Romo's been slightly more efficient than Rodgers but only once did he eclipse 300 yards passing this year - against Watt's Texans interestingly enough. Rodgers went over 300 7 times. His stats would have been even better had he not blown teams right off the field before halftime so often.

Romo - 34 TD's against 9 INT's
Rodgers - 38 TDs and 5 INTs

Add the signature wins on top of the blowouts and historical stretch in Nov. and there's no one in the ballpark.

Can you imagine what Aaron's numbers would have been had he played every snap of every game this year?

[mraynrand]

Aikman just said something about Romo that perfectly encapsulates the Romo-Rodgers comparison. He said Romo's going to do "what he's done all year," rely on his running game for success. Conversely, the Packers running game relies on Rodgers to shift defenses to their advantage for success.

true. Still, I think people don't realize how poor the Cowboy receiving corpse (intentional) really is. Dallas relies on the running game because, with the exception of Bryant (sometimes, when he isn't melting down), their receivers struggle to get open unless there is the threat of the run. And Romo can't throw receivers open the way Rodgers can.