MVP really is the top QB award, as is the Heisman.Originally Posted by Pugger
That bores me so I invented my own criteria: most dominant and valuable player. I'm a rebel, I can't live by society's rules. I'm too sexy for my shirt.
MVP really is the top QB award, as is the Heisman.
That bores me so I invented my own criteria: most dominant and valuable player. I'm a rebel, I can't live by society's rules. I'm too sexy for my shirt.
To say he's the Most Valuable Packer wouldn't be right, but Cobb has been pretty damn important this season. Nevermind his TD's; the guy's a first down machine. Plus, he's a legitimate weapon out the backfield. I don't think there's anyone else on the roster that could take his place.
One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...al-the-nfl-mvp
Comment woodbuck27:
Check out this hype that I entreat it as trivia:
Houston Texans' JJ Watt Needs 20 Sacks to Steal the NFL MVP. by the way the author sure has been wrong a lot this season.
By: Rivers McCown , AFC South Lead Writer
Dec 22, 2014
Final comment:
Nice try 'Rivers McCown'.
** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. Thoreau
it was all Rodgers until the last two games. now it's all watt. AR's gonna need one hell of a game tomorrow.
Aaron Rodgers got that 'one hell of a game'.
Aaron Rodgers will win the NFL MVP or he's been robbed.
GO Aaron GO !
** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. Thoreau
Game Set Match. Remember the days when Rodgers wasn't tough or clutch?
The legend grows.
HOFer
If JJ Watt actually was good enough to get his team into the playoffs, he might actually earn some consideration.
However, he is not actually that good. He's the Kevin Love of the NFL...a guy who posts monster stats on a team that never goes anywhere. Sure, he's good...but you can't tell if a player is elite until they play in meaningful games. What meaningful NFL game has JJ Watt ever played in?
It's such a GOOD feeling...13 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
Plenty of great players are on so-so teams.
HOFer
And plenty of them don't get MVP consideration.
It's such a GOOD feeling...13 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
Right, the MVP award goes to best QB that makes playoffs.
I'm disagreeing with your theory that JJ Watt is not so great because his team didn't make playoffs.
HOFer
I'm not so much dumping on the playoff miss...they were a Ravens loss away from making it.
I'm far more leaning toward the inferior schedule the Texans played in terms of facing experienced, elite QBs. Did Watt rack up this incredible season facing superior QB competition? Did he play in meaningful games against top talent? The answer is a resounding NO.
Did he face Tom Brady? No. Peyton Manning? No. Aaron Rodgers? No.
When the Texans did face an upper tier QB, they ALWAYS lost. Twice against Luck? Two losses. Once against Big Ben? Another loss. Once against Romo? Yet another loss.
In today's pass happy NFL, it is easier for QBs to put up numbers...and it is easier for DEs to rack up sacks. 20 sacks today is probably equal to 30+ just a generation ago. It isn't a stat that impresses me. Wins impress me. Wins over elite talent really impresses me. Watt did not have a win over elite talent. He had a great year. He's not the most valuable player in the league...not by a long shot.
It's such a GOOD feeling...13 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
This is a good post. Without biasing you with my view, would you do the same assessment for Rodgers - How do you think his stats/performances line up, especially against elite defenses/talent?
"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck
HOFer
Aaron Rodgers certainly was more effective against poor defenses...that is expected. So let's throw out all the gaudy numbers he put up against piss poor defenses. He is supposed to toy with those units, and he did to a VAST extent.
However, Rodgers did face a fair number of very good to great defenses this season to test him. Using top 10 defenses...based on total yardage allowed over the season...Rodgers faced those units 6 times out of 16 games. Rodgers was .500 in those 6 games...he won the home games, lost the road games. He was not consistently dominant against elite defenses, but he held serve at home and had several big performances.
Seattle (#1) - Week #1 - Rodgers was mediocre in this game. Granted, it was the first game of the year...on the road...against the defending champs. He completed 70% of his passes, but wasn't impactful.
Jets (#6) - Week #2 - Rodgers and the offense was not firing on all cylinders here either, but in key situations Rodgers was good...QBR over 84. 7-14 on 3rd downs. 3 TD passes, including an 80 yarder to Jordy late in the 3rd quarter to give Green Bay the lead.
Detroit (#2) - Week #3 - Very tough start to the season facing the top 2 defenses in the league on the road! The Lions made things uncomfortable for Rodgers and he wasn't effective on the road.
Carolina (#10) - Week #7 - Rodgers dominated a good Panther defense. Only 3 incompletions. 94 QBR. 3 TD passes.
Buffalo (#4) - week #15 - Perhaps Rodgers' worst game ever. He certainly got no help from his receivers with 7 drops, but some of that was due to inaccuracy by Rodgers.
Detroit (#2) - week #17 - With a division title on the line and a nagging injury in cold temperatures, Rodgers posted a 97+ QBR against an elite defense in an epic performance.
In addition to those, Rodgers also had statement WINS over capable Patriots (#13) and Dolphins (#12) defenses.
The best offense JJ Watt can claim to have beaten this year...using the same yardage metric? Baltimore at #12.
Bottom line? Against better offenses, JJ Watt and his defense did not do enough to win games. It wasn't like Houston's offense was horrible either to the point they had to be overcome...they weren't great, but they were 14th in points scored in the league. If Watt was SO dominating and SO disruptive and SO much better than any defensive player since LT...why were they only 9-7 against a cupcake schedule?
Sorry...I do not see how any of that translates to an MVP award for Watt. If he put up the numbers he did and his team was 12-4 or 13-3...yeah, put him in the debate like LT was. However, you can't be valuable if your team doesn't get wins...because WINS are what ultimately determine value more than anything else. Rodgers got wins against elite competition and in big moments. Watt did not.
It's such a GOOD feeling...13 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
Nice post. I repped you. I don't agree with everything you write, but it's a decent argument. I forget who floated the argument that other teams elevate their play against Rodgers, but I 'd like to see (or do myself) that analysis, especially in light of the Jets' performance at Miami yesterday.
Last edited by mraynrand; 12-29-2014 at 01:33 PM. Reason: oops, I thought you used ESPN's qb rating...
"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck
This is not basketball. There are about 35 critical players on each team that determine record, not to mention coaching. If anything, outstanding players on inferior teams have proven themselves more valuable than great players who benefit from talent around them.
The QB position is a little different in that it is so determinative But myself, I still would reward impact more so than the final team record.
I get what the MVP award has become - the coronation of the QB of a Super Bowl bound team. There certainly is plenty of logic to this system in a pass-happy league.
I prefer to pick who I think really is the best and most valuable player in the league. Why? Because I can.
There are many ways to evaluate the greatness of a defensive lineman. Quality of opposing QBs is pretty low on that list. Stats don't tell the story either.
I think JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL. It is a subjective evaluation. I get that the MVP Award is reserved for QBs.
HOFer
So you don't think it is harder to post sacks against guys like Manning, Brady or Rodgers...as opposed to whoever JAX or TEN throw out there?
It's such a GOOD feeling...13 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
My evaluation of JJ Watt goes beyond sack statistics. The fact that he gets a ton of sacks from the defensive tackle position is just a cherry on the protein shake.
You'll just have to accept that I am a football genius and can see things that you can't. You'll understand when you are older.
BTW, is it that hard to sack Peyton Manning?
Good stuff King.
If Watt gets the MVP over Rodgers it will be a crime.
C.H.U.D.
Here are some numbers on Rodgers versus the best Defenses he has faced this season. He has not fared as well as he has done in the past and the author concludes its a result of a small sample size. But I blame this on the lack of a true third option in the passing game plus road protection woes. Adams/Quarless/Rodgers/Boykin only dominated in maybe 1 or 2 games this season (domination in the statistical sense, beating one on one coverage while attention was devoted elsewhere).
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/gam...-game-previews
The Packers have been beaten pretty easily in three games against those top-ten pass defenses, winning only against Miami with some late-game heroics. Fortunately for the Packers, there is little reason to think that Rodgers' inability to find more consistent success against the NFL's best pass defenses will continue. Over the last five years, Rodgers has fared well against top-ten pass defenses, and only a little worse than he has against the rest of the league. The four games from earlier this year look like a small-sample quirk.
In fact, most quarterbacks perform similarly against the top pass defenses and the rest of the league in terms of DYAR per game. That's not all that surprising since DYAR accounts for the opposing defense's strength.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
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