Packers dominate all-division team on offense

[vince]

I would take this assessment with a big grain of salt. The offenses in the rest of the division were truly offensive this year, especially the Bears. Last year it was the Chicago OL that was getting all the props while the Packers OL was considered just average. Have things changed that much in one year?

The play of the Bears OL has changed for one. I'd say the play of the Packers OL has changed too - for the better.

The other 3 offenses have been pretty bad this year, but the Packers have been very good. #1 scoring offense in the league and they did it in dominating fashion by gaining the most yards per play as well.

[mraynrand]

If your objections are different, apparently they will have to remain one of the great mysteries of life, because I will not beg you for an explanation.

You will have to beg at this point

[ThunderDan]

The play of the Bears OL has changed for one. I'd say the play of the Packers OL has changed too - for the better.

The other 3 offenses have been pretty bad this year, but the Packers have been very good. #1 scoring offense in the league and they did it in dominating fashion by gaining the most yards per play as well.

We really need to take the play calling away from MM. It is unacceptable to only be the highest scoring team and gaining the most yards per play.

We must score at least twice as many points as any other team in the league. Otherwise, MM is a failure.

[Patler]

I'm not sure I've hears much about past line coaches. Maybe it's just me but I seem to hear more about Edgar Bennett...Tom Clement....Kevin Greene. Those guys coach less players and in Bennett and Greene's case seem to be player's coaches.

I'm not sure I recall much more getting those praises. When Joe Phily was here he exceled at OL; I'm not sure we have that coach on our staff now.

We agree to disagree on this one. I've always felt Campen is at least average and not a coach I'd consider canning.

My biggest complaint with Campen has been the broken record performances year after year, with the line starting poorly, and not getting their act together until mid-season or so. I expect a good coach to fix that after a couple years. I attributed it to Campen's underwhelming coaching resume. The guy simply had no experience coaching adults. For some, that isn't an issue, but Campen was promoted very quickly. In three years he went from being a high school coach to Packer quality control, assistant line coach, then line coach. I thought maybe he needed more seasoning. But I am willing to admit I may have been too harsh (or maybe he has grown into his job )

I seem to remember players talking up Lovat, Beightol and Philbin as O-line coaches. Among the current coaches, in addition to those you mentioned, both Rodgers and Flynn have praised Van Pelt quite a lot, Lacy and Starks have had good things to say about Gash, and the DBs at least mention Witt and Perry. I simply don't remember anyone on the O-line saying much about Campen at all.

[pbmax]

Bulaga has had one down week this year - two sacks allowed by Wake in Week 6. 1 other sack allowed this year.

Can't find stats on Bakh but I don't remember him getting beat by speed much. My guess he's maybe allowed a handful of sacks this year. He used to be (last year) susceptible to power but always handled speed pretty well...

Rodgers has been pretty clean at least since the bye week as far as I recall.

Bach has given up the most pressures, though I am only judging by the weekly totals in McGinn's Rating the Packers column, I have no season totals. I have seen him beat with speed. Unlike Newhouse, he doesn't give up and Rodgers can often step up to avoid the deep pressure and Bach can then regain control. Its OK, but not ideal.

Bulaga has given up pressure to both speed and bull rushes. He seems most affected by the road woes. Same as Bach, he doesn't lose completely so recovery is possible, but his command of the situation is tenuous.

[pbmax]

Beightol and Lovat got a lot of love. Lovat got his accolades late after the Packers were done rebuilding the line through the draft and stopped the stopgaps.

The Sherman era O lines loved Beightol, especially being able to relate how profane he could be to reporters.

Don't remember much about Philbin as O line coach as he was moved to OC quickly.

[mraynrand]

My biggest complaint with Campen has been the broken record performances year after year, with the line starting poorly, and not getting their act together until mid-season or so. I expect a good coach to fix that after a couple years. I attributed it to Campen's underwhelming coaching resume. The guy simply had no experience coaching adults. For some, that isn't an issue, but Campen was promoted very quickly. In three years he went from being a high school coach to Packer quality control, assistant line coach, then line coach. I thought maybe he needed more seasoning. But I am willing to admit I may have been too harsh (or maybe he has grown into his job )

I seem to remember players talking up Lovat, Beightol and Philbin as O-line coaches. Among the current coaches, in addition to those you mentioned, both Rodgers and Flynn have praised Van Pelt quite a lot, Lacy and Starks have had good things to say about Gash, and the DBs at least mention Witt and Perry. I simply don't remember anyone on the O-line saying much about Campen at all.

I think Campen started raw and has improved. But he's had some shaky personnel too, due to injuries and whatnot. Maybe some holdover too from the emphasis on the ZBS.

[Patler]

I worry Bach might be leading by being the best of a bad bunch. He gets beat by speed WAY too much for my comfort. Bulaga is also up and down. I would take a Tackle over a TE.

Those were my original thoughts about the tackles, too. Apparently, Kahlil has really gone into the tank this year in MN, and Bushrod to some extent, too. Going into the season I would have expected them to be the two best. Instead, its Bakhtiari and the guy in Detroit. Pretty much exactly inverted from what I expected. At RT, Bulaga might have gotten it by default for being the healthiest at an injury riddled position.

[Patler]

I think Campen started raw and has improved. But he's had some shaky personnel too, due to injuries and whatnot. Maybe some holdover too from the emphasis on the ZBS.

Very true. It takes a while to replace five guys, and the need was there when Campen took over. Starting in one direction, then going in another has prolonged it, and injuries certainly haven't helped. For example, I think Spitz could have been a serviceable player at guard or center, but couldn't stay on the field. Bulaga has added to the instability.

[Patler]

We must score at least twice as many points as any other team in the league. Otherwise, MM is a failure.

Unfortunately, with the defense and ST performances we sometimes see by GB, there is some truth to that!

[Patler]

You will have to beg at this point

So, I guess I am being punished, huh? Now who is playing Dad???

[Carolina_Packer]

I worry Bach might be leading by being the best of a bad bunch. He gets beat by speed WAY too much for my comfort. Bulaga is also up and down. I would take a Tackle over a TE.

If both the TE and T in question were the best available at their position during the draft, I would say go T since they are harder to find. Doesn't mean we can't find a good TE, and Rodgers looks like he has some hands; he just needs time to learn the offense and learn to block more consistently.

[Patler]

there are few things in the world that interest me less than Bob McGinn's end-of-season all-division team.

Apparently it interested you enough to open the thread, and post a comment.
(Admit it, you READ the first post, didn't you?)

I stopped reading at "McGinn"

Why did you even go that far? You knew what was coming from the title.

I wanted to voice my displeasure with the whole concept. Who are you, my father?

Not really. You just lectured, Dad. But, as you were in the position of ultimate, untouchable purity, I felt there was no possibility of measuring up.

Gee, that was some lecturing by me, wasn't it? I certainly hope you learned your lesson from it !!

You had three opportunities to expound on your thoughts. You chose to incite, instead.

[Smidgeon]

Those were my original thoughts about the tackles, too. Apparently, Kahlil has really gone into the tank this year in MN, and Bushrod to some extent, too. Going into the season I would have expected them to be the two best. Instead, its Bakhtiari and the guy in Detroit. Pretty much exactly inverted from what I expected. At RT, Bulaga might have gotten it by default for being the healthiest at an injury riddled position.

And Bakh is a pro-bowl alternate, so either he's better than we think or as Rodgers' LT, he's getting more credit than he should.

[vince]

Bach has given up the most pressures, though I am only judging by the weekly totals in McGinn's Rating the Packers column, I have no season totals. I have seen him beat with speed. Unlike Newhouse, he doesn't give up and Rodgers can often step up to avoid the deep pressure and Bach can then regain control. Its OK, but not ideal.

Bulaga has given up pressure to both speed and bull rushes. He seems most affected by the road woes. Same as Bach, he doesn't lose completely so recovery is possible, but his command of the situation is tenuous.

Although I think Bakh has peformed admirably this year, I can see the argument that there remains room for improvement, particularly in run blocking and in reducing his penalties. Just going from impression, he has to lead the team in offensive penalties by a wide margin.

I don't see the Bulaga criticism at all. He's been a rock at RT all year against everyone except Wake in Miami. A few pressures here and there, though he typically recovers? Not sure what your perspective is in terms of standards of excellence but he's been great this year. Maybe ding him a little in run blocking too but not much else - and even that gets more subjective too when you look at whether the backs decisions are in sync with the linemen and how that can make linemen look.

[pbmax]

Although I think Bakh has peformed admirably this year, I can see the argument that there remains room for improvement, particularly in run blocking and in reducing his penalties. Just going from impression, he has to lead the team in offensive penalties by a wide margin.

I don't see the Bulaga criticism at all. He's been a rock at RT all year against everyone except Wake in Miami. A few pressures here and there, though he typically recovers? Not sure what your perspective is in terms of standards of excellence but he's been great this year. Maybe ding him a little in run blocking too but not much else - and even that gets more subjective too when you look at whether the backs decisions are in sync with the linemen and how that can make linemen look.

My general impression of Bulaga's performance came early, after the road woes (Seattle, Detroit) his injury, Miami and the Saints game. Its possible I have missed him solidifying his performance in the last 6-8 weeks, post-injury. Although getting walked back into Rodgers lap twice versus Detroit at home wasn't helpful.

He did have less clear whiffs than Bach, but it wasn't lockdown tight as he had before his injury trouble. That plus age make me uncertain how much he should be counted on next year. Even if he stays, I think the need for a backup Tackle with the skill to start eventually is a big need.

The sack numbers are impressive, but we really need pressure numbers because forcing a QB to move is often just as effective as tackling him.

[pbmax]

nm

[mraynrand]

My general impression of Bulaga's performance came early, after the road woes (Seattle, Detroit) his injury, Miami and the Saints game. Its possible I have missed him solidifying his performance in the last 6-8 weeks, post-injury. Although getting walked back into Rodgers lap twice versus Detroit at home wasn't helpful.

He did have less clear whiffs than Bach, but it wasn't lockdown tight as he had before his injury trouble. That plus age make me uncertain how much he should be counted on next year. Even if he stays, I think the need for a backup Tackle with the skill to start eventually is a big need.

The sack numbers are impressive, but we really need pressure numbers because forcing a QB to move is often just as effective as tackling him.

Maybe a great LT will fall to the Packers late in the first round, Then Bak could move right. That draft position has been LT gold for Green Bay!

[QBME]

My general impression of Bulaga's performance came early, after the road woes (Seattle, Detroit) his injury, Miami and the Saints game. Its possible I have missed him solidifying his performance in the last 6-8 weeks, post-injury. Although getting walked back into Rodgers lap twice versus Detroit at home wasn't helpful.

He did have less clear whiffs than Bach, but it wasn't lockdown tight as he had before his injury trouble. That plus age make me uncertain how much he should be counted on next year. Even if he stays, I think the need for a backup Tackle with the skill to start eventually is a big need.

The sack numbers are impressive, but we really need pressure numbers because forcing a QB to move is often just as effective as tackling him.

With all due respect PB, he's only 25 years old!

[pbmax]

With all due respect PB, he's only 25 years old!

It seems like he is 34. Lots of injuries, several severe. Very few injury free seasons.

On the other hand, I am glad to finally overestimate someone's age for a change.