How do you beat the Seahawks?

[pbmax]

Now, I do agree with wist in saying we need to really do full bore on the power run blocking against Seattle. You can't string out the Seattle defense. It doesn't work. If they run a pitch play to Lacy toward the edge, we'll lose 5 yards every time...and McCarthy loves to pull that dumbass play out at least once every week.

I think they are eminently susceptible to outside zone, but the only person who cannot see that Lacy doesn't ever use the cutback might be M3. If they put Starks in there, run outside zone, they would hit it. Its built for scorching fast pursuit.

[woodbuck27]

wist...I agree with the others. You aren't watching closely enough, or you are just content to stick with the same old routine you used 4 years ago.

Since McCarthy got Lacy, he's been trending AWAY from the zone blocking with him.

Now, I do agree with wist in saying we need to really do full bore on the power run blocking against Seattle. You can't string out the Seattle defense. It doesn't work. If they run a pitch play to Lacy toward the edge, we'll lose 5 yards every time...and McCarthy loves to pull that dumbass play out at least once every week.

It's 'the Sweep' without the 'S'.

The Weep.

[wist43]

I think they are eminently susceptible to outside zone, but the only person who cannot see that Lacy doesn't ever use the cutback might be M3. If they put Starks in there, run outside zone, they would hit it. Its built for scorching fast pursuit.

Don't see it at all... the Seahawks are very well coached, and the front seven players are fast, tough, and disciplined.

I was watching a play on Saturday where Carolina tried to run a screen, and the RB ended up out in front of the OL... my first thought was how in the hell did that play get so disjointed. Was the RB out of position, were the OL out of position, was it too slow developing??

When they showed the replay - and the announcers never picked up on this - you could see one of the Seahawk defensive linemen holding 2 of Carolina's offensive linemen as they were trying to release. They were trying to release, but the defensive linemen (couldn't tell who it was) had both of them stuck in mud - and this was after he had delivered a hard punch to the ORT, slowing his release as well.

As a result, the RB was out in front of the 1 OL that was able to at least get out to the flat - but as soon as the ball arrived, Chancellor just killed the RB at the point of the catch for a 2 yd loss.

That 1 DL recognized what the play was going to be, and instead of breaking free and chasing down the line, he held all the OL up and Chancellor received all the praise from the announcers for blowing the play up.

Now technically, that should have been holding on the defensive linemen - as defensive linemen can be called for holding the same as offensive linemen - but that rarely gets called, rarely, rarely, rarely; and that wasn't the only time I saw the Seahawks holding like that on the line...

If the refs aren't going to call that - and they certainly won't - then our OL aren't likely to be going anywhere anytime soon... that is just one of the ways the Seahawks clog an opponents running game to a halt.

If I were MM, when they meet with the officials pregame - I'd be bitching up a storm about holding by the Seattle defensive linemen.

[smuggler]

If that's the case, we should be doing the same when they run screens.

But screens are not going to win this game. We need to attack their weakness - at present, if they have one, it's their defensive line. They have some undersized guys in there. We need to focus on running the ball and ball protection. With their DTs thinned out, that's our best chance. And, if we can keep them in single-high safety the entire game, we might be able to sneak in a few shots down the field.

[woodbuck27]

If that's the case, we should be doing the same when they run screens.

But screens are not going to win this game. We need to attack their weakness - at present, if they have one, it's their defensive line. They have some undersized guys in there. We need to focus on running the ball and ball protection. With their DTs thinned out, that's our best chance. And, if we can keep them in single-high safety the entire game, we might be able to sneak in a few shots down the field.

Will it be this ? :

What we've seen time and time again or MM and Aaron Rodgers will start the game blasting the Seahawks 'D' with a solid running game and suddenly abort. Eddie Lacy will have an asthma attack. Aaron Rodgers will get nailed in the pocket and the Packers will fall behind on the score board. Seattle isn't a team you come back on in their house.

It could be this ! :

I believe the Packers have one decent chance. They have to establish and somehow maintain a solid running game. We need to see both Eddie Lacy and James Starks get busy and gain solid yards. MM and Aaron Rodgers need a strategy that's simple in focus and that's to keep the Seattle Offense off the field. MM game plans for short pass's and to tighten up the Seattle Secondary; with the speed of Jordy Nelson look for a shot or two.

We are fortunate to have a healthy team getting ready for this vital game. The Packers are superior in the passing game but MM has to use his full offensive arsenal to get out front and never let up on this Seattle defense.

Smart and determined will win the day !


GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

The Dallas running game coordinator is a big zone run scheme guy. They got Murray 115 yards. I have not seen that game in a while, but its clearly not impossible.

Lacy is better with other options though, so I hope to see some of those more than outside zone with him.

[Bossman641]

Lions yield 24, good defense.

Packers yield 21 based on pure luck, 6th worst output for the Boys all year, its a miracle.

Fixed

[mraynrand]

Lions yield 24, good defense.

Packers yield 21, 6th worst output for the Boys all year, its a miracle.

Wist has become what he hates the most - one who alters reality to fit his preconceived notions.

The Packers' defense is pretty much exactly what it is - a poor defense that got better over the bye to become a top 10 defense. They can be had of course, just not as easily as at the beginning of the year. Dallas scored more on Seattle and Detroit than on GB. Some say forcing turnovers is luck, while others see it as good defense. Certainly Wist wouldn't attribute Seattle's forced turnovers to luck.

Familiarity is the culprit: we know what the Packers' weaknesses are, and when other teams are able to exploit those same weaknesses, it looks bad to us. But it's just another version of the broken tile syndrome. Or the grass is greener phenomenon.

The reality is that Seattle has the best defense in the NFL and is playing at home. That's a tall task for the Packers offense. Defense will have to keep the bleeding to a minimum to give the offense a chance. Wonder if we'll see the same "react/contain" defense we saw in the opener? I kinda doubt it.

[Bossman641]

I haven't seen many Seattle games lately but they killed us by threatening and running the jet sweep in week 1. Looking at their rushing stats, I am assuming they don't run this anymore now that Harvin is gone as none of the other WR has more than 2 carries. I wonder if they will put Turbin or Michael in the slot and test the Packers on misdirection.

This might be the worst group of WR the defense has gone up against all year. The secondary against their TE's and WR's should be a huge mismatch. They just have to play smart and not let Kearse or Luke Wilson sneak behind them.

[RashanGary]

To win.....

Going to have to be mentally tough. Seattles defense is so good, they change the flow of the game. So...... Even when the offense isn't flowing (and it won't be) they are going to have to remain calm and keep playing smart football. Eventually we will score.


Win turn over battle

Play 2014/2015 Packer football!

[pbmax]

I haven't seen many Seattle games lately but they killed us by threatening and running the jet sweep in week 1. Looking at their rushing stats, I am assuming they don't run this anymore now that Harvin is gone as none of the other WR has more than 2 carries. I wonder if they will put Turbin or Michael in the slot and test the Packers on misdirection.

This might be the worst group of WR the defense has gone up against all year. The secondary against their TE's and WR's should be a huge mismatch. They just have to play smart and not let Kearse or Luke Wilson sneak behind them.

They have a Harvin replacement but he doesn't touch the ball as much. They aren't running as many Jet Sweeps, but are still doing a lot of misdirection.

[smuggler]

Dallas' offensive line is significantly better than Seattle's

Also, from what I have been hearing, Seattle's cornerback Byron Maxwell has pneumonia and may be unable to go on Sunday. That's a big blow for Seattle, and makes Davante Adams all the more important in the game.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...288349421.html

Holmgren offers blueprint for attacking Seahawks defense

By: Tom Silverstein of the Journal Sentinel

Jan. 12, 2015

(66) Comments

[Smidgeon]

Wist has become what he hates the most - one who alters reality to fit his preconceived notions.

The Packers' defense is pretty much exactly what it is - a poor defense that got better over the bye to become a top 10 defense. They can be had of course, just not as easily as at the beginning of the year. Dallas scored more on Seattle and Detroit than on GB. Some say forcing turnovers is luck, while others see it as good defense. Certainly Wist wouldn't attribute Seattle's forced turnovers to luck.

Familiarity is the culprit: we know what the Packers' weaknesses are, and when other teams are able to exploit those same weaknesses, it looks bad to us. But it's just another version of the broken tile syndrome. Or the grass is greener phenomenon.

The reality is that Seattle has the best defense in the NFL and is playing at home. That's a tall task for the Packers offense. Defense will have to keep the bleeding to a minimum to give the offense a chance. Wonder if we'll see the same "react/contain" defense we saw in the opener? I kinda doubt it.

I think this game will be like the last few (excluding Dallas) playoff games: the D does enough to win, leaving it up to the Offense to win it. In previous years, that didn't work out so well as the offense for whatever reason wasn't hitting on all cylinders. I am hoping the Dallas game (especially the fourth quarter) exorcized those demons and they come out hot or at least well above luke warm.

This game comes down to whether or not the Packers O (not D) can execute effectively.

[mraynrand]

Ya, the defense can only be expected to do so much. It's crazy how much offense there is now. 17 QBs with passer ratings over 90; pretty much 12 QBs with 4,000 or more yards passing. Packers are going to have to find a way to possess the ball and score probably 24 points or more because the chickens are going to get points. The main thing the Packer O has to do (for the D) (other than to score) is avoid 3 and outs and turnovers and if they don't score, consistently change field position to give their defense a long field to defend and for adequate rest.

[KYPack]

Wist has become what he hates the most - one who alters reality to fit his preconceived notions.

The Packers' defense is pretty much exactly what it is - a poor defense that got better over the bye to become a top 10 defense. They can be had of course, just not as easily as at the beginning of the year. Dallas scored more on Seattle and Detroit than on GB. Some say forcing turnovers is luck, while others see it as good defense. Certainly Wist wouldn't attribute Seattle's forced turnovers to luck.

Familiarity is the culprit: we know what the Packers' weaknesses are, and when other teams are able to exploit those same weaknesses, it looks bad to us. But it's just another version of the broken tile syndrome. Or the grass is greener phenomenon.

The reality is that Seattle has the best defense in the NFL and is playing at home. That's a tall task for the Packers offense. Defense will have to keep the bleeding to a minimum to give the offense a chance. Wonder if we'll see the same "react/contain" defense we saw in the opener? I kinda doubt it.

This is exactly what I was going to post.

Wist, you range from the voice of reason to the echo of doom on here. Sometimes you are right, sometimes it's the same old drone. This season, Capers elevated this defense from the toilet to a respectable unit.

We were dead last in rush D in the first part of the year. Your gloomy posts were the stone truth. But as the D improved, you keep to the same message. Capers totally re-tooled this defense to make 'em an effective unit. We moved from 32 in rush D to 23. We had to improve a lot to be in the bottom third. Capers addressed some of your criticisms in that make-over. In his 6 front nickel he went 3-3 in the front a lot more, giving less snaps in your hated 2-4. He still played 2-4, but brought Burnett down in the box in run support. In base, he moved Clay to ILB and got Barrington on the field. Peppers got his sea legs and was positioned perfectly by Capers, while getting the plays off he needs to stay fresh. In a real sound move, he used Nick Perry as a bull type OLB and lessened his coverage responsibility. On the back end, he went to a cover 3, playing Dix as a one high, shading him to the strong side.

in short, Capers made off-season moves in the middle of the year. He even addressed some of Wist's criticisms and did a makeover.

Go ahead and claim a little credit Wist. Some of your points were valid, but you should recognize Capers many changes. Most of 'em worked.

[pbmax]

Holmgren's Plan (woodrow's link)

1. Run on second down (pass rushers are in)
2. Pass on first (big uglies are in)
3. Line up receiver in bunch formations to make DBs switch off and to thwart press coverage
4. Take the 6 or 7 yard pass
5. Don't turn it over (said every coach not named Urban Meyer ever)

[mraynrand]

Holmgren's Plan (woodrow's link)

1. Run on second down (pass rushers are in)
2. Pass on first (big uglies are in)
3. Line up receiver in bunch formations to make DBs switch off and to thwart press coverage
4. Take the 6 or 7 yard pass
5. Don't turn it over (said every coach not named Urban Meyer ever)

LOL at the championship game reference.

I like point 4. Think back to the fail mary game and the halftime adjustment. Packers were playing their vertical passing offense and Seattle said, hey, we're gonna play you like it's the fourth quarter and we're up by 20 - all out pass rush and zero respect for the run. Bulaga was getting killed (as were others) because there was a wild abandon in the pass rush. So Stubby goes run heavy in the second half and wins the game. In the last two off seasons he and TT agree they need to be able to go to that adjustment as a way of life, so they draft Lacy and maybe even linsley so that they can maul a little bit. But they're still a pass first offense and still a deep passing offense. It may be now that the Rodgers injury and the running game will provide the balance they need to work the ball, instead of always looking for the home run, with the higher risk of getting sacked.

Also enjoyed seeing Holmgren's stubborn love of going against tendency. It worked well for him throughout his coaching career. Stubby is stubborn in the reverse I think - he goes with his best plays thinking "by god, these are our best plays with our best players, they damn well better work!"

[Bossman641]

They have a Harvin replacement but he doesn't touch the ball as much. They aren't running as many Jet Sweeps, but are still doing a lot of misdirection.

Paul Richardson? He's most similar to Harvin but he has no rushes on the year. Do they use him on swing passes like they did Harvin? He's out with a torn acl.

[pbmax]

Paul Richardson? He's most similar to Harvin but he has no rushes on the year. Do they use him on swing passes like they did Harvin? He's out with a torn acl.

That would be a definitive explanation about his low level of involvement. My work here is done.