THE INTERCEPTION BY BURNETT

[Patler]

Not to pick at the scab too much, but for those who didn't really seen the open green in front of Burnett I offer you the full-22 image just after the pick.

Oh my God! Other than the Seahawk lying flat on the ground, is anyone within 20 yards of him?
He had 5 OL and Wilson to beat.

[mraynrand]

House has him dead to rights, even if he runs, at the moment Hawk commits.

[Freak Out]

He has a good shot at picking up some important yards. With a couple of decent blocks on either side of the field he has gained significant yardage. Does he take it all the way? Probably not...but man..try for the short field at least. If he is approaching a wall of defenders fine...slide then.

[Patler]

House has him dead to rights, even if he runs, at the moment Hawk commits.

House has to be significantly faster than Ryan to catch him in a 15 yard race starting flat-footed from well behind. I don't think he is.

[Patler]

He has a good shot at picking up some important yards. With a couple of decent blocks on either side of the field he has gained significant yardage. Does he take it all the way? Probably not...but man..try for the short field at least. If he is approaching a wall of defenders fine...slide then.

Especially if Peppers had escorted him toward and down the sideline, instead of pulling out his white flag.

[hoosier]

that's what I proposed. I was trying to make a play on "electric slide" like Elected Slide, but i dunno, it doesn't sound all that good and like Fritz says, we're kicking ourselves in the nutz.

Made me think of slip sliding away, but someone probably already proposed that too.

[pbmax]

Ryan had to slow up to twist and get ready to throw. He gets caught by House with that motion before the first down.

If Hawk smothers the receiver and Ryan keeps his head of steam, its going to be close. Ryan runs well and has made tough first downs before.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Maxie let me apologize in advance for this rant. It's not directed at you specifically but I'm gonna use your response here to make it.

The offense was struggling passing the ball all game long. Rodgers' timing and accuracy was off the whole game. Maybe it was due to his injury, or maybe it was due to the best defense in the league, likely both. Two picks on badly thrown balls and/or being out of sync with his receivers. How many balls did he dump off to guys with their back turned to him? Rodgers was 19 of 34 with 2 bad picks, a whopping 171 yards and a 55 passer rating.

All while the defense was dominating the game - not problematic as you characterized. The passing game was a liabilitiy throughout the game, not the strength of the team. What the offense got (not much) the defense gave them.

You look at that game and postpartum rationalize that they should have ignored those facts, along with the inherent punitive consequences that come with a likely continuation of passing it?

You look at that game and postpartum rationalize they they should have ignored those facts - but how could they possibly not see the risks associated with "the chance bounce of the football" on a potentially forthcoming onside kick? Well it "chance bounced" right to our guy, but they should have known that he would ignore his responsibility and fuck up an easy can-of-corn pop-up to single-handedly give the Seahawks one last desperate breath of hope?

You look at that game and postpartum rationalize that some windstorm of emotion swept through the sideline (not sure if it was a lack of confidence or overconfidence - depends on the result of the play I'm pretty sure) and overcame the team to control the players execution on the field?

Are you sure you're not looking at that game and postpartum projecting the windstorm of emotion that swept through YOUR mind as an emotional fan of the team?

Those guys are pros for a reason. They're tough-minded and self-motivated to excel. They live to achieve goals, have achieved them their whole lives and their goal was to win that game. They didn't tighten up or let up or lack killer instinct or whatever meaningless excuse-of-a-state-of-mind you want to project onto them.

Not sure how many have been on a sideline of a football team at a level higher than the wonder years, but those guys were smelling blood. Some foo foo nonsense about being in the wrong emotional state was not the problem. Trash talking wasn't the key to the game. They were confident because they know they're good - at least up until the grade-school fuck-up on the onside kick, which I do think may have thrown some people for a loop.

Momentum is a big thing in football, but equating the loss of it with some non-existent emotional state sprung onto a bunch of tough-minded high-performing athletes by their coach is nonsense. No, trash talking is not the answer.

It was a tough, low-scoring game because BOTH defenses played at a very high level. The Packers didn't NOT pull away because of McCarthy's playcalling. They didn't pull away because Seattle - the top seed in the NFC in on their home field - is really good and teams just don't blow them away - at home particularly.

The momentum swung. It shockingly took as long as it did to happen with the way the offense was stalling - running AND passing. But the defense made it happen up until then.

Green Bay should have been able to get out of the building with a win but the players, including and perhaps especially Rodgers not being able to THROW THE BALL EFFECTIVELY throughout the game - due to a combination of his lack of mobility and just being out of sync with receivers because of the best pass defense in the league.

It's the players who are accountable. They didn't get it done and it's not because they were schemed out of position. The plays were right there.

Take their fucking diapers off - take your fucking diapers off - and recognize that they just didn't get it done for long enough to get the win.

The coach didn't send them into some mind-numbing or hyper-seensitive emotional state. He didn't let up on the gas. They never had any gas.

These childish excuses about not having the right emotional state, not doing enough trash-talking, or whatever else is being dreamed up - are ridiculous. They smelled blood, but the other team was pretty fucking good too and sometimes they win.

Physical mistakes happen - but just do your fucking job and the Packers are in the Super Bowl. It really did come down to that. It's a huge deal because they gave away such a big opportunity but that doesn't make it any more complicated or more emotionally or strategically caused.

And McCarthy is a great coach. You don't make "serious changes" and break down the best fucking team and organization in the league because of a completely freaky 3 minutes of football or because of a failure of your 3rd string TE on the hands team. Suggesting that is a fucking joke too.

Thanks for listening. Now carry on with your binky sucking.

Vince, first of all, no need for an apology. I don't take comments on this board personally. You rant. I rant. We all rant. But I did read your entire lengthy post and I hope you give the same consideration to mine. And please note that nothing I'm about to say is meant as disparaging or derogatory toward you.

That said, I disagree with most of what you said in your rant. Moreover, I disagree completely with your philosophy of football strategy which you explained earlier. ...Now to the specifics of what you said:

"The offense was struggling passing the ball all game long." Maybe in the 1st half, but not in the 3rd and 4th QTR's. From the start of the 3rd quarter until Burnett's interception, Arod was 3 for 7 for 32 yards and 2 first downs. Lacy rushed 4 times for 15 yards and 1 first down. Starks rushed 4 times for 41 yards and 1 first down (one rush alone accounted for 32 yards and his first down).

Now, regarding the series of downs in question, the one immediately after Burnett's interception, there was 5:04 left in the game. I'm thinking it's way to early to run out the clock UNLESS we make a first down or two. I'm also thinking, if we go three and out, the situation gets worse because Seattle has plenty of time to score, recover an onside kick and score again. And my gut tells me Seattle is going to score if they get the ball again.

Why do I think Seattle is going to score? Because, contrary to what you say in your rant, our defense in the 3rd and 4th quarter WAS "problematic." With 10:53 to go in the 3rd quarter, Seattle had a 6 minute drive, moving the ball from their own 22 yard line to the Packers' 19. Moreover, Wilson and Lynch were beginning to come to life (Wilson had a 29 yard completion to Baldwin, and Lynch had solid runs of 11 and 12 yards.

In the 4th quarter, in the Seattle series just before Burnett's interception, Seattle moved the ball from their own 13 yard line to the 50 yard line, with Lynch having two more solid runs of 13 and 11 yards.

So what does McCarthy do after Burnett's interception, giving what was happening above? He runs Lacy on 1st down into the teeth of the stacked defense for a loss of 4 yards. Does that sound like a man trying to make a game winning 1st down? Well, maybe. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

But surely now that it's 2nd and 14, McCarthy will turn his offense loose.

But no, he doesn't even show pass and runs the same play on 2nd down. Lacy loses 2 more yards. Then, on 3rd and 16 McCarthy does it again. Clearly, he was playing Vince football, playing it "safe," hoping Lacy busts one for a first down, but in any event running down the clock and running Seattle out of two time outs.

Well, he did the latter, but only ran a minute and 12 seconds off the clock. And in the process he put the game on the back of his "problematic" defense and took control out of his and his QB's hands.

Surely one can honestly disagree with this "safe" strategy without being a victim of "postpartum" rationalization!

Yes, there are "inherent punitive consequences" of throwing the ball (incompletions, interceptions), but there are also inherent rewards (1st down yardage, touchdowns). I happen to believe that, given this situation, based on what transpired in the second half up to Burnett's interception, that the rewards were more likely than the punitive consequences.

Fair enough?

As far as the rest of your rant, I consider it a "windstorm of emotion" of your own. It certainly has nothing to do with me or my state of mind either during the game or after.

[woodbuck27]

Vince, first of all, no need for an apology. I don't take comments on this board personally. You rant. I rant. We all rant. But I did read your entire lengthy post and I hope you give the same consideration to mine. And please note that nothing I'm about to say is meant as disparaging or derogatory toward you.

That said, I disagree with most of what you said in your rant. Moreover, I disagree completely with your philosophy of football strategy which you explained earlier. ...Now to the specifics of what you said:

SEE POST by Maxi the Taxi above for the rest.

You nailed it in my view 'Maxi the Taxi' because you went with the evidence.

The Play By Play.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201501...yze=playbyplay

It's much easier to see studying the Play By Play of that game.

The thing is Brandon Bostic's over exuberant flub and blown assignment is just another play of so many in the game. That flub didn't determine a loss as the Packers were up five (5) points after that flub.

When Russell Wilson tossed his 4th pick of the game did the Seattle side collapse? Flipping it over. How many in Packer Nation thought that pick by Morgan Burnett was the 'death nell' for the Seahawks? It looked like Morgan Burnett thought so. I've shot deer in the head that didn't drop as fast as he did.

I did the same thing today (studied the Play By Play and worked up a mighty post) but instead of spelling it out. I left the LINK on a post for Vince to see for himself ( Post#104 of An Attempt At Discussing McCarthy's Future ) . vince's a bright man. It's not my place (to teach or argu with) him or any other member; what he can learn for himself 'with an open mind'. The problem here is long term or escalating animosities. That sort of thing among fans supporting a mutual cause is silly.

That play by Bostic bugged me. So did the drop by Andrew Quarless on the right sideline on a perfect pass by Aaron Rodgers to secure a first down.

4th QTR:

3-4-GB 19 (5:26 remains) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 81-A.Quarless (50-K.Wright).

Why? Because that was followed up by another weak Tim Masthay punt of 37 yards that ended with Seattle getting excellent field position at their own 48.

Not to worry!

Russell Wilson promptly toss's his 4th pick ( Morgan Burnett ).

The thing with me is I'm not blinded by homerism. I'm fortunate to not be plagued with obsession before discovered reason. I predict a result then use analysis to determine why this/that happened.

Somehow I hope that makes me grow as a fan of football, of the NFL and of my beloved Green Bay Packers.

[Patler]

Ryan had to slow up to twist and get ready to throw. He gets caught by House with that motion before the first down.

If Hawk smothers the receiver and Ryan keeps his head of steam, its going to be close. Ryan runs well and has made tough first downs before.

Ryan said his instructions were to look at the LB, and if the LB dropped, just run without even considering the pass. With that approach, he gets the 1st down easily, I think.

No one has mentioned it, but Ryan really did a good job on that play. To be running as hard as he was, pull up and loft a 20 yard throw as accurately as he did is not easy for a guy not used to that type of thing. If he was short on the throw, Hayward probably makes a play on it. That, and a lot of things to keep in mind, including being aware of the line of scrimmage.

[vince]

If Green Bay would have been up only one score, not two, at the 5 minute mark, I'd agree with the need to open it up to get a first down there. Had they been up by only one score at that same point, I have no doubt McCarthy would have thrown the ball in trying to move it rather than running it, because they would more desperately need a first down to win at that point. Running in that situation showed confidence in his team, not a lack of it.

The only reason to lack confidence at that point, and therefore take more risks, was if you feared your team would fall apart by allowing Seattle to get a quick score, successfully execute an onside kick and then score a second quick TD - all without the benefit of possessing the ball again.

Well, we know what happened. The Bostick Botch single-handedly undermined the faith McCarthy had in his guys, and changed the complexion of all the other plays and calls before it that until that point had contributed to their success. Now they became instrumental in their failure.

The field goals in the first quarter that should have added enough to the final tally for victory (as they did vs. New England) all of a sudden should have been 4th down touchdowns. Burnett's interception to seal the game became a premature celebration. HaHa's inexplicable failure to break up the two point conversion wouldn't even have happened. McCarthy's confidence in his team to finish Seattle off and play as they had for the entire game up to that point (3 for 7 for 32 yards passing isn't exactly lighting it up passing) - and as they had done in numerous wins prior - became "playing not to lose," "tightening up" and more.

Everything that happened before the botch changed, and suddenly, before we could get our heads around it, everything after it actually happened. It wasn't a dream, but at the same time none of it was real either - until one moment - a moment brought on entirely by a mental lapse of reason - changed it all into the opposite of what it was before.

You were right Maxie to fear what to me was an unbelievable series of events. Obviously all that happened was possible and could possibly have been avoided had they passed rather than ran. There is no guarantee that passing the ball would have secured a first down but we know running didn't.

If you want to say he should have had less confidence in his guys and protected the team against themselves, then there's nothing and noone who can deny that's right because they screwed the pooch at every turn from that point on.

I can't blame McCarthy for having confidence in his guys.

[woodbuck27]

Did he seriously say that? What sense does it make to NOT try and run it back? I agree with Red...this team needs an serious colonic.

The shock of the crowds sudden grrroooaaann !

Forced Morgan Burnett down before he looked to see how open it was for him to gain a chunk.

When he responded to the media after that game he hadn't seen any recording of the play.

That was one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in football. A definite moment !

[hoosier]

If Green Bay would have been up only one score, not two, at the 5 minute mark, I'd agree with the need to open it up to get a first down there. Had they been up by only one score at that same point, I have no doubt McCarthy would have thrown the ball in trying to move it rather than running it, because they would more desperately need a first down to win at that point. Running in that situation showed confidence in his team, not a lack of it.

The only reason to lack confidence at that point, and therefore take more risks, was if you feared your team would fall apart by allowing Seattle to get a quick score, successfully execute an onside kick and then score a second quick TD - all without the benefit of possessing the ball again.

Well, we know what happened. The Bostick Botch single-handedly undermined the faith McCarthy had in his guys, and changed the complexion of all the other plays and calls before it that until that point had contributed to their success. Now they became instrumental in their failure.

The field goals in the first quarter that should have added enough to the final tally for victory (as they did vs. New England) all of a sudden should have been 4th down touchdowns. Burnett's interception to seal the game became a premature celebration. HaHa's inexplicable failure to break up the two point conversion wouldn't even have happened. McCarthy's confidence in his team to finish Seattle off and play as they had for the entire game up to that point (3 for 7 for 32 yards passing isn't exactly lighting it up passing) - and as they had done in numerous wins prior - became "playing not to lose," "tightening up" and more.

Everything that happened before the botch changed, and suddenly, before we could get our heads around it, everything after it actually happened. It wasn't a dream, but at the same time none of it was real either - until one moment - a moment brought on entirely by a mental lapse of reason - changed it all into the opposite of what it was before.

You were right Maxie to fear what to me was an unbelievable series of events. Obviously all that happened was possible and could possibly have been avoided had they passed rather than ran. There is no guarantee that passing the ball would have secured a first down but we know running didn't.

If you want to say he should have had less confidence in his guys and protected the team against themselves, then there's nothing and noone who can deny that's right because they screwed the pooch at every turn from that point on.

I can't blame McCarthy for having confidence in his guys.

Great points.

[ThunderDan]

If Green Bay would have been up only one score, not two, at the 5 minute mark, I'd agree with the need to open it up to get a first down there. Had they been up by only one score at that same point, I have no doubt McCarthy would have thrown the ball in trying to move it rather than running it, because they would more desperately need a first down to win at that point. Running in that situation showed confidence in his team, not a lack of it.

The only reason to lack confidence at that point, and therefore take more risks, was if you feared your team would fall apart by allowing Seattle to get a quick score, successfully execute an onside kick and then score a second quick TD - all without the benefit of possessing the ball again.

Well, we know what happened. The Bostick Botch single-handedly undermined the faith McCarthy had in his guys, and changed the complexion of all the other plays and calls before it that until that point had contributed to their success. Now they became instrumental in their failure.

The field goals in the first quarter that should have added enough to the final tally for victory (as they did vs. New England) all of a sudden should have been 4th down touchdowns. Burnett's interception to seal the game became a premature celebration. HaHa's inexplicable failure to break up the two point conversion wouldn't even have happened. McCarthy's confidence in his team to finish Seattle off and play as they had for the entire game up to that point (3 for 7 for 32 yards passing isn't exactly lighting it up passing) - and as they had done in numerous wins prior - became "playing not to lose," "tightening up" and more.

Everything that happened before the botch changed, and suddenly, before we could get our heads around it, everything after it actually happened. It wasn't a dream, but at the same time none of it was real either - until one moment - a moment brought on entirely by a mental lapse of reason - changed it all into the opposite of what it was before.

You were right Maxie to fear what to me was an unbelievable series of events. Obviously all that happened was possible and could possibly have been avoided had they passed rather than ran. There is no guarantee that passing the ball would have secured a first down but we know running didn't.

If you want to say he should have had less confidence in his guys and protected the team against themselves, then there's nothing and noone who can deny that's right because they screwed the pooch at every turn from that point on.

I can't blame McCarthy for having confidence in his guys.

+1

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

So I agree there were many fuckups. Does this mean most of the players are taking a paycut to help us sign the freakish TE and ILBers? I mean, now is the time to hit them up since their fuckup is fresh in their mind...

[ThunderDan]

So I agree there were many fuckups. Does this mean most of the players are taking a paycut to help us sign the freakish TE and ILBers? I mean, now is the time to hit them up since their fuckup is fresh in their mind...

This might be the new management style. Of course for every $500,000 you take away from a Bostick or Hawk there would be a Crosby or Cobb demanding $1,000,000.

[woodbuck27]

So I agree there were many fuckups. Does this mean most of the players are taking a paycut to help us sign the freakish TE and ILBers? I mean, now is the time to hit them up since their fuckup is fresh in their mind...

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers would step right up for that?

He delivered a sub Jay Cutler style performance in Seattle.

[mraynrand]

as hard to look at as:

[Bossman641]

Let's knock them all out

[Freak Out]

Fuck you guys.