Or they will point out that that game was in Lambeau and not a neutral site. We have to remember there was a 10 year span between SB wins for Brady so was Brady not clutch during that time? If that kid doesn't intercept that slant from Wilson nobody would be talking about Brady = GOAT.Originally Posted by denverYooper
P. Manning's playoff record is 9-11 so last year isn't the first time he's choked in the playoffs.
I disagree. People were still talking about it before the game. But what people are now saying is that this game cemented his status as being "clearly superior" to anyone else. THAT is and always will be debatable. But he definitely is one of the 1%.
No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.
Nine times Peyton has been one and done in the playoffs. NINE TIMES!!!!
Perhaps the greatest regular season QB ever (5 MVPs) or just lucky in those great statistical years (i.e. no competition), but he either wilts in the postseason or he's perennially on weak teams that can't rise to the challenge against the best teams in the league.
The best postseason QB will always be a debate: Otto Graham, Bart Starr, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, etc.
No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.
Exactly. Brady was one Lynch run from having the media question whether he would ever win the SB again and why he had gone 0-3 in SB's over a 10 year stretch. Instead he will go down as 1 of the 2 best QB's ever. Football really is the true team sport. Our season was ruined by a 3rd string TE. Brady's season was saved, and his career will largely be remembered, by the actions of an undrafted rookie FA.
Go PACK
It could be that the long arc of regular season performance points out that Manning is superior, but that Brady's success is indicative of being on a better team.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
I'm suspicious that Brady had been a huge beneficiary of Spygate in the past, along with spectacular offensive lines, and generally good coaching (which instills a "no mercy" attitude and tries to find edges where other teams don't). He's also been able to beat up on an inferior AFC (particularly AFC East) for over a decade now, and thus has managed to be part of the best team out of that group.
That's not to say he's not one of the best of all time. He generally manages to play his game under most circumstances, and with his skill and the weapons he has, that's good enough. However, if he's hit in any way, he starts to unravel. I'm shocked that Seattle didn't try to put hits on him after his second interception.
How could **Peyton Manning be considered as a superior QB to Tom Brady?
The NFL is ultimately about the top teams and playoffs; getting to and winning the Super Bowl.
In the Modern Era there are two obvious candidates for who's best. Joe Montana or Tom Brady and they never faced one another. On those two outstanding quarterbacks the debate may be focused.
Joe Montana with a 16-7 playoff record (0.696) and 4 Super Bowls that 'included back to back wins in 1988 and 1989'. Montana's four Super Bowl wins cover a 9 year span.
Tom Brady is just getting better and has a sensational 21 - 8 playoff record and also 4 Super Bowls (0.724) and that included back to back Super Bowl wins 2003 and 2004. The 21 wins in the playoffs is an NFL best. Brady's four Super Bowl wins cover an incredible 14 years and he wants more.
If your going to add one or two more to thicken the debate:
Bart Starr's playoff performance (9-1 and 2 Super Bowls) is obviously impressive.
People seem to somehow ignore Terry Bradshaw ...14 - 5 and 4 Super Bowls in just 6 seasons 1974-79.
Troy Aikman and a 11-4 playoff record and 3 Super Bowl rings in just four season.
How about John Elway and all his comeback wins and 14-7 in the playoff's and 2 Super Bowls?
** Peyton Manning is THE RECORD MAN. When it comes to clutch and performance in the real time. He's not going to be in the conversation.
Last edited by woodbuck27; 02-03-2015 at 07:22 PM.
** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. Thoreau
I feel clutchness is a thing. I know it's dismissed as a sports cliche, but why? Different people have different abilities to handle stress. Some people panic, some people are in the middle, and some people don't care at all. I don't really think anyone RAISES their level of play, but when they stay consistent, while everyone around them folds, it may seem like they raised their level of play.
With Rodgers, early in his career, I don't think he handled stress as well as he does now. Yes, in 2008, Rodgers did have those go-ahead scores, only to have the defense give up another, putting him in a "now or never" situation. I don't think he did as well with those now or never situations, where if we don't score now, we lose. It's natural for a young quarterback replacing a legend. Over time, he's gotten a lot better at this, delivering on these opportunities.
Maybe there's still a residue of this type of thing in the playoffs, unless he goes "unconscious". It seemed this was happening in the second half of the Cowboys game, and most notably against Atlanta in 2010. Otherwise, he's still very good in the playoffs, but it appears to me that he sometimes misses throws that he normally makes easily, and then gets mad at himself or looks skyward. This too is understandable - he's an emotional dude and is smart enough to know what's at stake, and actually care.
Perhaps as his career progresses, he'll get better at blocking out the emotions of the moment and do a better job of getting into Flow, when the playoffs roll around. Again, this is not to say he's not already awesome. Just an improvement theory.
Flow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29
Funny, when I googled 4th quarter comeback percentages quarterbacks the VERY first article that comes is "Aaron Rodgers Mr. Irrelevant in the 4th quarter"
When I google Aaron Rodgers not clutch An espn article, a sporting news article,(among others) come up regarding the subject. I am kinda lazy so I'm not digging super deep but after the Cincy loss last season A-Rod was 5 out of 29 when he had the ball in the 4th quarter with the Packers trailing by a score or less. The Miami game and the Dallas game were great, but unfortunately those games seem to be the exception. Tony Romo had 5 4th quarter comebacks in the 2012 season alone. Again I just thought this was common knowledge, being mathematical and all.
Not at all. Does it mean they are better quarterbacks? Absolutely not. But it's dumbfounding to me that some of you guys think that a quarterback having a bad record in close games as a starter is irrelevant, or some cliched misrepresentation. He underperforms in late game situations in tight games. And yes I am designating the term underperforming. If Jay Cutler has more than double late game comeback drives than you I will say you are underperforming in that area.
And he's also two difficult catches being dropped away from being a SIX times champ. You can spin it away you want it doesn't change the fact he has FOUR game winning drives in the superbowl. If Eli Manning doesn't complete that pass to Tyree he might have 5 and maybe even 6 with a little more luck. He could just as easily be 3-0 during that same span so trying to discredit what turned out to be yet another game winning drive is the same as arguing he could have had even more titles.
Even in the other two that he lost, when it came down to do or die time he put his team in the lead. The only difference is the defense held in this game and not in the other two.
Brady is number one all time now in my book. Rodgers is now 6-5 in the playoffs. This is his record during his prime years. He will be 32 next December so he's not exactly young anymore either. One of those wins shouldn't even count in 2012 vs the Vikings.
Last edited by PaCkFan_n_MD; 02-03-2015 at 07:59 PM.
Draft Brandin Cooks WR OSU!
** Joe Webb ?
** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. Thoreau
Here is the issue I have with this.... Did you see Patriot receivers or TEs drop Brady's 3rd and 15, 3rd and 9, or 3rd and 6 on a few of the 4th quarter drives?? No... It always seems that all Patriots players understand the importance of big moments and they make the plays. If this was the Packers, someone would have dropped a pass to kill a drive, AKA 3rd and 4... Quarless. or it would have been Davante or someone else like Finley last year. Somehow Hoody always has his guys step up in big moments, like the rookie Butler, it comes down to coaching and getting these guys ready. We're good but not great.
Dig a little deeper and you will find some research on how many times Rodgers' has led a 4th Quarter comeback and then lost the game due to defense or Special Team errors.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
All small sample sizes. And I think indicative of better teams having more success in the post-season. Much easier for the better QB with the weaker team to win in the regular season.
Now how this applies to the Packers is the interesting question. Prior to last year's 49er playoff game, it seemed to come down to terrible defense coupled with a terrible injury plague. The offense was not as prolific as it was facing much better Defenses, but it produced.
Last year though the D was playing better than the O versus the 49ers. However, the Packers struggle versus that D and it didn't help that Rodgers had just returned from injury.
This year would have been the best test of the team since 2011, as they shored up the defense and everyone was healthy. Except for the QB.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
I'll buy all this mumbo jumbo mind-reading if you can successfully explain how the expert at stress handling Tom Brady suddenly was a puddle of mental goo in two Super Bowls with the Giants D.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
OK, but that has nothing to do with: "A-Rod's lack of clutch, signature moments are obvious to people who analyze qb play."
Again, cite some people of name and note, who analyze QB play and see what they say about Rodgers' "lack of clutch, signature moments."
"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck
If writers at espn and sporting news aren't enough, cowherd,dilfer, stephen a, bayless, locally bob mcginn....just off the top of my head. I don't have specific quotes at the moment but i recall it being mentioned. I gave you the math. Google. It is a known concept, not a figment of my imagination. Are you arguing that by NFL standards he has been good in those spots? He hasn't. I kinda feel sorry for some of you guys. It really is denial at this point. He is not the only factor, the quarterback is a huge factor whenever a team fails or succeeds.
My previous post discusses how Brady folds like a cheap tent if he takes hits and has to move around. His second interception the other day occurred right after he took a big hit and started to get happy feet (believe it or not, I predicted it coming).
In any case, nobody is perfect at this.
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