JS ARTICLE "WITH SB IN SIGHT< RODGERS DOES NOT DELIVER

[Patler]

This is where it gets hard to parse. How much of the entire game's playcalling was an effort to protect that calf? His one big run cost him as he was even more immobile after it. In Dallas in the second half, moving more seemed to limber up his leg. In Seattle, it seemed to get worse from a movement standpoint.

When trailing with less than two minutes left, there is nothing to protect. At that point, Rodgers himself needed to throw out caution, and do whatever he was able to, no matter how compromised by injury he was. There is no longer reason to be "smart" with it, as MM and his players are prone to say.

[mraynrand]

When trailing with less than two minutes left, there is nothing to protect. At that point, Rodgers himself needed to throw out caution, and do whatever he was able to, no matter how compromised by injury he was. There is no longer reason to be "smart" with it, as MM and his players are prone to say.

How do you know he didn't?

[Patler]

How do you know he didn't?

I don't, anymore than you know he did. BUT, on first down, with a few yards ahead of him even at a slow trot, he elected to throw a pass into Lacy's back. That was very atypical Rodgers. On second down, according to some (haven't checked myself) he had another large running lane, but threw to a covered rookie instead. Again, atypical for Rodgers. So, I chose to surmise based on appearance, for the purpose of discussion on a fan site.

If you limit us to what we know for sure, none of us, including you, will have much to write on here.

[mraynrand]

If you limit us to what we know for sure, none of us, including you, will have much to write on here.

Here we go again. Thanks for the lecture, Dad, I didn't know that.

I don't, anymore than you know he did. BUT, on first down, with a few yards ahead of him even at a slow trot, he elected to throw a pass into Lacy's back. That was very atypical Rodgers. On second down, according to some (haven't checked myself) he had another large running lane, but threw to a covered rookie instead. Again, atypical for Rodgers. So, I chose to surmise based on appearance, for the purpose of discussion on a fan site.

Both those moves are completely consistent with Rodgers being unable to run. On the game tying drive it was clear to me that he was laboring mightily to run. Both the toss to Lacy (not to his back) and to Rodgers (not on the same page, don't know who missed the check) made sense
to me. Either way, he wasn't playing for the FG, that much I feel certain about, and I think he was trying to make the best plays he could, knowing his running was extremely limited. The Lacy toss was unfortunate, because I think Lacy was turning and blocking expecting Rodgers to run, which happened enough before the injury that Lacy was probably reacting naturally.

Rodgers delivered just fine, especially based on the effect of the injury on formations, throwing, and running. Had he been totally healthy and played like he did, I would have been disappointed.

[Patler]

Here we go again. Thanks for the lecture, Dad, I didn't know that.

Yes, here we go again. You start it with a snide question to me about what I "know", and when I respond directly to your condescending question you act as if you are the offended one. (Yawn.)

Both those moves are completely consistent with Rodgers being unable to run. On the game tying drive it was clear to me that he was laboring mightily to run. Both the toss to Lacy (not to his back) and to Rodgers (not on the same page, don't know who missed the check) made sense
to me. Either way, he wasn't playing for the FG, that much I feel certain about, and I think he was trying to make the best plays he could, knowing his running was extremely limited. The Lacy toss was unfortunate, because I think Lacy was turning and blocking expecting Rodgers to run, which happened enough before the injury that Lacy was probably reacting naturally.

Rodgers delivered just fine, especially based on the effect of the injury on formations, throwing, and running. Had he been totally healthy and played like he did, I would have been disappointed.

Laboring to run, yes, but on the previous play he was still able to run from the left hash mark to the right sideline, while picking up 12 yards up field and a first down. On the first down play to Lacy, he had already run from the pocket at the 44 to near the numbers at about the 40. I'm not questioning if he could have run for a touchdown, just if he could have turned up field from there, picked up a few yards, and slid or gotten out of bounds again. Just something positive on the play, at least.

I agree with your take on Lacy in the play on first down. It still hurts watching that again (which I just did). Complete the pass to Lacy, and he picks up positive yardage, maybe even a first down as he was running away from would be tacklers, and who knows how much after that? Once he gets rolling in the open field it often takes a bunch of tacklers over a significant distance to get him down. Alternatively, a healthy Rodgers runs a long way on that play.

As for 2nd down, where ever I read that AR had running room, was wrong, under the circumstances. A healthy Rodgers, maybe; but he was surrounded in a small pocket. If he could have gotten out, there was room, but only a healthy AR and a few other QBs could get out of that tight pocket. What he did miss was a wide open receiver on the left. Two lined up wide and crossed. Both DBs went with the one lined up inside when he went out. The outside receiver came in, with no one on him. Could have had a few easy yards anyway.

Just a few yards on first and/or second down, and third down becomes more makable for a 1st down. Did AR get as much out of those two plays as he could have? I don't know, but if the qustion is, "Did he deliver?" its easy to come to a conclusion of "No."

Third down - the entire right side of the field looked like it opened up, particularly if the receivers on that side were going deep. AR got out of the pocket and had no one visible on the screen in front of him. Could/should he have ran, in spite of his calf? I don't know, but it is something to discuss. Did he deliver?

As I said, I don't know the answers at all to these questions, but there was great fame and recognition right there to be had. AR didn't get it, that's a fact. Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess.

[Pugger]

Yes, here we go again. You start it with a snide question to me about what I "know", and when I respond directly to your condescending question you act as if you are the offended one. (Yawn.)




Laboring to run, yes, but on the previous play he was still able to run from the left hash mark to the right sideline, while picking up 12 yards up field and a first down. On the first down play to Lacy, he had already run from the pocket at the 44 to near the numbers at about the 40. I'm not questioning if he could have run for a touchdown, just if he could have turned up field from there, picked up a few yards, and slid or gotten out of bounds again. Just something positive on the play, at least.

I agree with your take on Lacy in the play on first down. It still hurts watching that again (which I just did). Complete the pass to Lacy, and he picks up positive yardage, maybe even a first down as he was running away from would be tacklers, and who knows how much after that? Once he gets rolling in the open field it often takes a bunch of tacklers over a significant distance to get him down. Alternatively, a healthy Rodgers runs a long way on that play.

As for 2nd down, where ever I read that AR had running room, was wrong, under the circumstances. A healthy Rodgers, maybe; but he was surrounded in a small pocket. If he could have gotten out, there was room, but only a healthy AR and a few other QBs could get out of that tight pocket. What he did miss was a wide open receiver on the left. Two lined up wide and crossed. Both DBs went with the one lined up inside when he went out. The outside receiver came in, with no one on him. Could have had a few easy yards anyway.

Just a few yards on first and/or second down, and third down becomes more makable for a 1st down. Did AR get as much out of those two plays as he could have? I don't know, but if the qustion is, "Did he deliver?" its easy to come to a conclusion of "No."

Third down - the entire right side of the field looked like it opened up, particularly if the receivers on that side were going deep. AR got out of the pocket and had no one visible on the screen in front of him. Could/should he have ran, in spite of his calf? I don't know, but it is something to discuss. Did he deliver?

As I said, I don't know the answers at all to these questions, but there was great fame and recognition right there to be had. AR didn't get it, that's a fact. Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess.

There was one bad pass to Lacy that if you look at replays he turned his ankle on his good leg!

[mraynrand]

Yes, here we go again. You start it with a snide question to me about what I "know", and when I respond directly to your condescending question you act as if you are the offended one. (Yawn.).

I missed this. No, that comment wasn't snide - it (was intended to) illustrate the point that it's unknowable whether Rodgers gave all he could. So we differ (I think?) on the point of whether Rodgers was going all out - or not: "Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess."

I'm OK with not knowing for sure.

[Patler]

I missed this. No, that comment wasn't snide - it (was intended to) illustrate the point that it's unknowable whether Rodgers gave all he could. So we differ (I think?) on the point of whether Rodgers was going all out - or not: "Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess."

I'm OK with not knowing for sure.

Well, I said in my very first post about this that I was stating the questions that one can ask about his performance in that final drive; but that I didn't know the answers to those questions. I have repeated it in several later posts.

Rodgers was physically compromised, not question about that. You might recall that I was one of the first to correlate his inaccuracy and lateness on passes to his slower and modified footwork. On the other hand, I do not believe that he was able to scramble 40 yards on one play to pick up 12 and go out of bounds, and then suddenly be incapable of going 5 yards or more that were right in front of him when he threw to Lacy. We should be able to discuss his decision on that play, even with his calf injury as a given. The injury is not an excuse for every decision made.

We should be able to discuss his decision on second down to throw to Rodgers, when he had an uncovered WR on the opposite side who had a sure few yards and perhaps more. The calf injury had no impact on that decision whatsoever.

We should be able to discuss his decision on third down to throw to Nelson well short of the first down when he had at least that much gain (and perhaps much more) available to him running the ball even at his compromised trot that he used three plays earlier.

I have no idea if any of those three decisions was a bad one or not, because I am not knowledgeable of the factors and routines he uses when making those decisions. But, it is easy to see that different decisions could have had profound impacts in the game. As I have said several times, that drive alone was the type of situation from which legends are made. Unfortunately, the result ended 30 yards short of the legend because of two failed and one inadequate play, each of which seemed to have a more positive alternative.

Therefore, I thought we might discuss the plays. Apparently, we can not, so I won't try any longer.

[pbmax]

When trailing with less than two minutes left, there is nothing to protect. At that point, Rodgers himself needed to throw out caution, and do whatever he was able to, no matter how compromised by injury he was. There is no longer reason to be "smart" with it, as MM and his players are prone to say.

If throwing caution to the wind drops you to the ground (see Lions game), it has gained you nothing.