Iits not that you don't like the pick, you just don't like the pick for the Packers? I don't think most people would split hairs this way. If you don't like the player for the team that selected them, then you don't like the pick. Anyway, I think this horse is dead.Originally Posted by wist43
Not being a fit for the defense has been a long-standing criticism of TT. They've changed the base a bit, so some of these guys fit a little better, but Perry wasn't a fit, Jones wasn't a fit, even Daniels and Raji weren't good fits.
Since MM forced Capers to go to an Elephant/hybrid, there is more of a role for those guys, but when they were drafted, and how they were initially used - no, they were not good picks b/c they weren't good fits. That is almost all entirely on Capers - and TT didn't help the situation by taking guys that were better fits for other schemes. It's as if TT and Capers weren't on the same page.
That said, Capers had quite a bit of talent in the front seven in '13 and 14 - he completely sucked it up in '13, and '12 was a complete bust b/c he insisted on playing that idiotic "Jumbo 2-4" 75% of the time.
As for DB's, I do place more of a value on solid tackling and toughness - the Packers care little about it. Every year MM has to fend off the media b/c they are constantly on his ass about, "... what are you going to do about the poor tackling"; and every year MM says, "... we're going to get that cleaned up", lol...
It is what it is.
wist
Nick Perry would not rush the passer better if he was a DE. Do you maniacs actually think he suddenly becomes Richard Dent with a finger in the dirt?
One other thing to consider. Randall was not a safety coming into ASU. His coaches asked him to move when he came in as a JUCO. Watching his safety film is watching him out of position from the standpoint of his experience and his job with the Packers.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
He came in with the attitude of not wanting to play OLB and not wanting to reduce his weight after bulking up to be a 4-3 DE. Limiting his responsibilities to DE (fewer keys, no pass coverage) and not fighting his attitude probably would have helped. Not enough to make him Richard Dent, but at least better than the Arthur Dent the Packers got his first year.
I've not heard anything negative about Randall's attitude at all. Questions are can he learn the position fast enough and can he overcome the size difference against some of the taller receivers.
Fire Murphy, Gute, MLF, Barry, Senavich, etc!
The Packers best defense under Capers was in 2010. They were 2nd in the NFL in points allowed. This despite the fact that their rushing defense was 18th, and their rushing YPC was 31st. On the other hand, they were 5th in passing yards allowed, and 2nd in interceptions. Since the loss of Collins and Woodson, they haven't been as good of a ballhawking defense. With the drafting of Randall, Rollins, HHCD, Goodson and Hayward in recent years, TT is trying to get back to what he had in 2009-2010. It's not what Wist wants, but is what won them a Super Bowl.
Collins and Woodson were both physical DB's and solid tacklers. Woodson was a coach on the field, and Collins was one of the fastest players in the NFL - enough talent that even spraypaintedhair couldn't fuck it up.
Last year, spraypaintedhair had the best set of DB's since the '10 season, the only real soft spot being HHCD, but only b/c he was a rookie. He was exposed a few times, but that is expected of a rookie. Now Williams and House are gone - so the outside is a huge question mark.
I like Hayward, I like Hyde, I like Rollins, and I think Goodson has tools - but can any of them play outside?? I don't think Randall can survive out there. So we'll see.
wist
One could argue 2010 roster was no more physical than this year's roster. I would suggest, however, that there is no meaningful way to measure how "physical" a team is and that it is not worth arguing about. It can be used as a broad talking point, but it is to abstract to be much more than that.
The Packers were great against the run when they needed to be in 2010. It was still a huge strength of the team left over from 2009. The reason they were 18th in 2010 was because they stayed in nickle all the time precisely to leverage their advantage as a run defense.
70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.
I remember the 2010 defense. That was fun to watch. Woodson roaming, stuffing the run at will when it was strategic, and just generally controlling games. The offense needed some more oomph, and they got it the following year. Now if they could've combined the two...
No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.
He rarely is played in coverage. And we have been over and over his comments before the draft (prefer to be DE) and his weight, which the team said it was OK about.
He needs another pass rushing move, not a position change.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
2010 was the year of the Heavy package, with Green out there with Raji and Pickett. I think they could go 4 big ones in short yardage, but don't remember the 4th. Jolly was in trouble that year.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Yes, we were good against the run - when dunderummy actually defended it. As it was, we had enough talent on the 2nd and 3rd levels that playing the 2-4 wasn't the disaster that it became the next year-couple of years. Woodson, Collins, Bishop, Cullen Jenkins, a fresher Raji, a fresher Pickett b/c of the rotation, etc.
Where things really went in the dumper was when we lost all those guys, or some of those guys, and dunderdummy more than doubled down on the 2-4, he went bat-shit crazy playing the 2-4.
As for who would have rotated in/out for a goal line defense in '10 - certainly Jenkins was available, and we still had CJ Wilson and Jarius Wynn in the rotation; can't remember who was hurt when, but Wilson wasn't entirely terrible if that's all you asked him to do was anchor against the run.
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The fall off the next couple of seasons was mostly on dunderdummy - but a lot of the blame had to go to TT as well, as he didn't do much to replenish the cupboard on defense. Still, there was no excuse for what dunderdummy did with the talent he had available to him. Just a terrible, terrible job of coaching by that idiot.
wist
Well in 2011 run defense was pretty much situational only as running on that team was a waste of time.
By 2012 all the guys from that 2009 run stuffing defense had declined or left and the offense lost enough firepower that it could no longer play run defense for Capers.
70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.
We set an all-time record for pass defense futility, and carded the 2nd worst defense of all-time, 6,585 yardss - broken the next year by the Saints; so now we're on the hook for only the 3rd worst defense of all-time!!!
I don't care how well the offense was humming, that defense was embarrassing to watch.
2012 the overall numbers weren't so bad, even though I couldn't stand the fact that dunderdummy was still allowed to remain on this planet - as he and anyone with even remotely the same DNA should have been put into a capsule and shot into space!!By 2012 all the guys from that 2009 run stuffing defense had declined or left and the offense lost enough firepower that it could no longer play run defense for Capers.
Of course 2012 was the year dunderdummy laid that huge turd in San Francisco that was enough to launch Kapnerfucker into the Hall of Fame.
If it's between launching dunderdummy into space, or launching Kapnerfucker into the HOF?? We could have avoided the latter, if we'd only pursued the former
wist
I'd take that 2011 defense over the next two iterations. History will be too harsh on that D IMO. That team ran into team after team forced to play in cockroach mode for 4 quarters. This is why they got that ridiculous amount of turnovers and its also why they gave up that ridiculous amount of yards. As a scoring defense they were average.We set an all-time record for pass defense futility, and carded the 2nd worst defense of all-time, 6,585 yardss - broken the next year by the Saints; so now we're on the hook for only the 3rd worst defense of all-time!!!
I don't care how well the offense was humming, that defense was embarrassing to watch.
2012 the overall numbers weren't so bad, even though I couldn't stand the fact that dunderdummy was still allowed to remain on this planet - as he and anyone with even remotely the same DNA should have been put into a capsule and shot into space!!
Of course 2012 was the year dunderdummy laid that huge turd in San Francisco that was enough to launch Kapnerfucker into the Hall of Fame.
If it's between launching dunderdummy into space, or launching Kapnerfucker into the HOF?? We could have avoided the latter, if we'd only pursued the former
We had the best scoring offense in the NFL this last year and they were nowhere near that 2011 offense. That was something special.
2012 the defense was average in all aspects then destroyed in the playoffs. In 2013 the defense reached an all time low for the 2nd half of the year.
70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.
Oh please let it come out on Ancestry.com that wist and Capers are related. LOL
All hail the Ruler of the Meadow!
Imagine - Imagine the joy in wistland if spraypaintedhair were launched into space!!!
It would be a joyous event - notice the masses rejoicing!!!The grand music
, the parades, the pride
, feeling whole again
The emotions runneth over
What a day that would be!!!
wist
Notwithstanding the Atlanta 2nd half and Seattle last 5 minutes, which are the two games that stick in the craw of most of us and the games we remember the most, the defense was pretty good the second half of last year. They played some below average offenses, but they also held Philly, New England, and Dallas, three top 5 offenses last year, below their average points scored.
If you could magically take out the Atlanta game, GB allowed 18.5 points/game, which is top 5 territory. As it was they were top 10 scoring D after the bye.
Here's a homer prediction just to piss you off wist.
I'm hoping Rollins comes along quickly because he and Hyde being all over the field around the line of scrimmage a la Woodson x2 (with Burnett watching on the sideline eventually).
Dom's gonna go all Buddy Ryan on the league this year. No one's gonna know where they're coming from.
Hey, a guy can dream can't he?
I'm with vince in spirit but I think its Matthews that is going to look like Woodson moving around this year.
With Bush gone, would love for one of the DBs to become a threat on the blitz.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Micah Hyde?
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