Brady 4 Game Suspension Upheld

[pbmax]

No, no no. The "ME" knows the balls are deflated; he can't say how. For example, the old man died from injuries sustained tumbling down the stairs. The ME CANNOT determined whether his wife pushed him or he misstepped. So they have to look on the old bag's cell phone to see whether she texed someone that she can't stand the old bastard one more day. Ooops, the cell phone/server/tapes are missing!

No, that doesn't work either because we (in ME case) know the method of the injury. Better to say kidney failure? Maybe blunt force trauma that could have multiple causes?

And the texts are not all missing. They have the employees texts to Brady and the complete phone/text records from AT&T. If Roger wanted Brady's copies of those other messages, he could retrieve them from the 28 NFL related people he conversed with. The evidence did not disappear like Nixon on tape. No one has bothered to retrieve the backup copy in Haldeman's safe.

[sharpe1027]

No, that doesn't work either because we know the method of the injury. Better to say kidney failure? Maybe blunt force trauma that could have multiple causes?

And the texts are not all missing. They have the employees texts to Brady and the complete phone/text records from AT&T. If Roger wanted Brady's copies of those other messages, he could retrieve them from the 28 NFL related people he conversed with. The evidence did not disappear like Nixon on tape. No one has bothered to retrieve the backup copy in Haldeman's safe.

They don't need the texts to make a case. Is it a winner? IDK, but it is a hell of a lot more convincing that you are stating.

[pbmax]

They don't need the texts to make a case. Is it a winner? IDK, but it is a hell of a lot more convincing that you are stating.

Could be. But the lack of texts from Brady is now being cited as one of the two charges against him (the other being clear and convincing/more probable than not knowledge of a scheme).

Knowledge of the scheme, by the way, is a new rule. See Jay Feely.

[sharpe1027]

Could be. But the lack of texts from Brady is now being cited as one of the two charges against him (the other being clear and convincing/more probable than not knowledge of a scheme).

Knowledge of the scheme, by the way, is a new rule. See Jay Feely.

What's wrong with that charge exactly? Is it the NFL's duty to seek out the data that Brady made difficult, if not impossible, to retrieve? Does it matter to the issue of what Brady did that there might be an alternative way of getting the data?

[pbmax]

What's wrong with that charge exactly? Is it the NFL's duty to seek out the data that Brady made difficult, if not impossible, to retrieve? Does it matter to the issue of what Brady did that there might be an alternative way of getting the data?

Previous instance of not supplying your phone to NFL investigation was a $25,000 fine. (see Favre v. Jet Masseuse, 2012)

And yes, if there is an alternative method to obtain data, then obstruction and lack of cooperation cease to be major issues.

[mraynrand]

And yes, if there is an alternative method to obtain data, then obstruction and lack of cooperation cease to be major issues.

this is what you believe? amazing

[sharpe1027]

Previous instance of not supplying your phone to NFL investigation was a $25,000 fine. (see Favre v. Jet Masseuse, 2012)

And yes, if there is an alternative method to obtain data, then obstruction and lack of cooperation cease to be major issues.

Wow.

[pbmax]

this is what you believe? amazing

Wow.

Maybe I am missing something, but no its not a major issue in this case.

Wells asked for copies of any text messages or phone records to be supplied by Brady's side. He specifically said he did not need the phone. If Brady recovers them from AT&T's mail server and the recipients of text messages, what is the substantive difference?

[mraynrand]

No, that doesn't work either because we know the method of the injury.

I don't follow you here at all. The balls were deflated. That's the result. That could have happened 'naturally/acidental' (cooling environment, old man loses equilibrium) or 'unnaturally/deliberately' (needle, old lady pushes)

And the texts are not all missing. They have the employees texts to Brady and the complete phone/text records from AT&T. If Roger wanted Brady's copies of those other messages, he could retrieve them from the 28 NFL related people he conversed with. The evidence did not disappear like Nixon on tape. No one has bothered to retrieve the backup copy in Haldeman's safe.

yes, not all the tapes were missing; not all the server contents are missing. Not all the cell phone chatter is missing. What remains isn't helpful to the argument that deflation wasn't deliberate. But your observation begs the question: what about the missing chatter?

Given my awful experiences with AT&T, would not be surprising if they couldn't retrieve a cold beer from a fridge, let alone 'missing' texts.

[pbmax]

I don't follow you here at all. The balls were deflated. That's the result. That could have happened 'naturally/acidental' (cooling environment, old man loses equilibrium) or 'unnaturally/deliberately' (needle, old lady pushes)

You know the fall and the stairs (+ gravity) caused the injury. The method of football pressure loss is still being debated. In the former, the location and method of injury is known. In the latter both are unknown.

[mraynrand]

You know the fall and the stairs (+ gravity) caused the injury. The method of football pressure loss is still being debated. In the former, the location and method of injury is known. In the latter the method of pressure loss is unknown.

really PB?

loss of pressure = fall/injury. There are various possible explanations for the loss of pressure as for the fall. The point being that the result on it's own is insufficient to determine cause.

The point in this case is that the loss of pressure isn't definitive, so it can't rule in or out claims either way. Have to look elsewhere.

[pbmax]

really PB?

loss of pressure = fall/injury. There are various possible explanations for the loss of pressure as for the fall. The point being that the result on it's own is insufficient to determine cause.

The point in this case is that the loss of pressure isn't definitive, so it can't rule in or out claims either way. Have to look elsewhere.

That's fair. I was going to say the fall/injuries/stairs gives you location and time frame, but I guess that could fit as many scenarios as Gillette Stadium between pre-game and halftime.

[sharpe1027]

You know the fall and the stairs (+ gravity) caused the injury. The method of football pressure loss is still being debated. In the former, the location and method of injury is known. In the latter both are unknown.

This seems to miss the point, but can we just end the analogy discussion? The scientific evidence for whether a needle was used is inconclusive either way. Agree to move on?

[pbmax]

This seems to miss the point, but can we just end the analogy discussion? The scientific evidence for whether a needle was used is inconclusive either way. Agree to move on?

I agree to move on if we change that to scientific evidence for whether anything was used is inconclusive.

[sharpe1027]

I agree to move on if we change that to scientific evidence for whether anything was used is inconclusive.

Agreed.