WEEK 1 NFL GAME THREAD - Other Games

[pbmax]

I was always under the impression that the home team supplied the headsets. The NFL supplies them instead?

Yes. It used to be the job of the home team but that was switched because of complaints about this exact kind of malfunction.

However, we have seen how well the NFL oversees sections of its operations.

So how much of a handle they have over the infrastructure is probably an open question. Remember the Saints were thought to have piped the opposing teams' wireless into the Owner's box for Mickey Loomis to listen too. They investigated it (for some reason the police or Feds were involved I seem to remember) but didn't find anything. But no one thought it was technically impossible.

Its likely that the NFL has rules about how it inspects and operates on Game Day. The Patriots (and everyone else knows this) so its possible for teams to hack it. Problem here is that if the visiting team has a malfunction, they should just turn it off for both teams that half. If possible (and its not the 2nd half) fix it and turn back on after halftime.

Either it all works or its off. If the Steelers are to be believed (I do not take that for granted at all) then the League puts itself in the position of getting played like Klink versus Hogan.

[Guiness]

The plot thickens! Dom, Dom, Dom!

What does the Packer's DC have to do with headsets at the Patriot's stadium??? nyuk nyuk nyuk

Pretty sure Deadspin is correct, you don't get cross-talk in an all-digital system. Transmission interference, but not cross-talk. Remember the old first gen 800Mhz cordless phones? They were analog, unplug your base set, and listen to the neighbors. Sometimes even if your base set was powered you could hear them if their transmitter was better and overpowered yours. New digital spread spectrum phones can't accidentally piece together all the parts of a different broadcast.

Deadspin is being a little over-dramatic with their comment that improper grounding of a wireless system is putting people at danger from a power surge or lightning strike though.

So I'm guessing what the NFL really mean is the system is 'mostly digital'. Not surprising, they have no reason do divulge what they're doing, and being misleading is what they do. PB is so right when he says the NFL is like a bunch of kindergartners running a billion dollar show.

[sharpe1027]

I was always under the impression that the home team supplied the headsets. The NFL supplies them instead?

The home clubs are responsible for the installation and maintenance of the coaching staff communications infrastructure. In other words, the home team controls all the stuff that allows the headsets to communicate. This is just as important as the headsets, probably more important from a security/integrity standpoint.

[sharpe1027]

Problem here is that if the visiting team has a malfunction, they should just turn it off for both teams that half. If possible (and its not the 2nd half) fix it and turn back on after halftime.

Either it all works or its off. If the Steelers are to be believed (I do not take that for granted at all) then the League puts itself in the position of getting played like Klink versus Hogan.

Sure, but that can still be an advantage if the home team has a loud crowd, or if (conspiracy!) they had had been preparing all week for not using headsets in anticipation of there being a problem...

[mraynrand]

W Remember the old first gen 800Mhz cordless phones? They were analog, unplug your base set, and listen to the neighbors. Sometimes even if your base set was powered you could hear them if their transmitter was better and overpowered yours.

This probably explains why my engineer neighbor hated me. Well, hated me even more.

[sharpe1027]

Pretty sure Deadspin is correct, you don't get cross-talk in an all-digital system. Transmission interference, but not cross-talk. Remember the old first gen 800Mhz cordless phones? They were analog, unplug your base set, and listen to the neighbors. Sometimes even if your base set was powered you could hear them if their transmitter was better and overpowered yours. New digital spread spectrum phones can't accidentally piece together all the parts of a different broadcast.

Technically, you could have cross-talk in an all-digital system, assuming that the interfering transmission used the exact same protocol and the protocol was overly simplistic/dumb. Most digital systems are designed with at least some intelligence to prevent that from happening (e.g., at least verifying the source). I doubt that is what happened here, particularly since the wireless feed is supposed to be encrypted.

[Guiness]

Technically, you could have cross-talk in an all-digital system, assuming that the interfering transmission used the exact same protocol and the protocol was overly simplistic/dumb. Most digital systems are designed with at least some intelligence to prevent that from happening (e.g., at least verifying the source). I doubt that is what happened here, particularly since the wireless feed is supposed to be encrypted.

The claim is milspec encryption to boot, no way in hell is cross-talk possible on that system.

Cross-talk in a digital system? I don't know, possible I guess. But I'd guess not accidentally, you'd have to work at inserting data in the stream. I'm inclined to think Deadspin's guess that the broadcast booth and the visitor coach's booth were never upgraded from the old Telex system they used to use everywhere, and the interference got into the system at the source, before it was converted to a digital signal.

[sharpe1027]

The claim is milspec encryption to boot, no way in hell is cross-talk possible on that system.

Cross-talk in a digital system? I don't know, possible I guess. But I'd guess not accidentally, you'd have to work at inserting data in the stream. I'm inclined to think Deadspin's guess that the broadcast booth and the visitor coach's booth were never upgraded from the old Telex system they used to use everywhere, and the interference got into the system at the source, before it was converted to a digital signal.

For sure. I was just saying it is technically possible, extremely unlikely and not what happened here, but you can come up with situations it could happen.

[Guiness]

For sure. I was just saying it is technically possible, extremely unlikely and not what happened here, but you can come up with situations it could happen.

Anything can happen - I've seen touch control lamps cause interference with HAM radios.
Was it Confucius that said "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Maybe the headsets weren't inflated properly.

[Patler]

Was it Confucius that said "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"?

I'm sure the Patriots don't do this intentionally with malice in their hearts, nor do they do it out of stupidity.
I suspect they do it intentionally out of arrogance bolstered by the knowledge that the worst punishment they would receive if caught would be insignificant.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe the headsets weren't inflated properly.

[smuggler]

I think the simplest solution is that the Pats were doing it as a 'Fuck You' to the league. I doubt there's much of a chance we'll find out for sure.

[Fritz]

I think the simplest solution is that the Pats were doing it as a 'Fuck You' to the league. I doubt there's much of a chance we'll find out for sure.

Sure we will. Then Goodell will bungle the investigation, butcher the punishment phase, and the Pats will appeal and win.

[Pugger]

[pbmax]

That Deadspin article covers one way the "all-digital" and encrypted system could be interfered with by outside analog signals and interference from the electrical infrastructure:

Assume the Gillette Stadium visitors’ coaching booth utilizes an analog headset amplifier—commonly called a Telex box, after the best known manufacturer of them—and that Telex box suffered from either faulty construction or poor electrical grounding in the booth. The Patriots’ radio booth too featured a mixer or other device with faulty construction (or the booth was improperly grounded). That would provide a path for the radio audio to get into the Telex box, and thus into the Steelers’ communication system. That’s the simplest explanation, albeit the one that implicates the Patriots (or their electricians) as possibly exposing people to millions of volts of electricity in the circumstance of a lightning strike or power surge.

If wireless coverage is an issue in the stadium for the coaches system and bandwidth is getting squeezed, I can see the league using the hybrid solution to ensure functionality upstairs while keeping the rest of the system as specified earlier. There are specs to eliminate interference and put the whole think on its own electrical circuit, but a grounding issue could easily subvert that.

[Guiness]

The Steelers/Tomlin have decided not to file a complaint.

I find that interesting. Was Tomlin's tirade anywhere near accurate? It conflicts quite a bit with the official NFL position that there were a few problems in the first quarter that were cleared right up.

pb - from your post I'm not sure if you realize it or not, and my earlier post was not clear...the example of Telex boxes that could cause the problem are analog devices. Both the broadcast and coach's system would have to have one, or another analog device in order for this to happen. I think that's why you put "all-digital" in quotes.

[pbmax]

pb - from your post I'm not sure if you realize it or not, and my earlier post was not clear...the example of Telex boxes that could cause the problem are analog devices. Both the broadcast and coach's system would have to have one, or another analog device in order for this to happen. I think that's why you put "all-digital" in quotes.

Nope, that was my bad. Somehow I missed your post. I agree with you that if the NFL explanation holds any water that the hybrid analog/digital system is the culprit.

Then the only question is why is part of it still analog? Wireless shortcoming with a retrofit (my guess) or legacy equipment (you and Deadspin). Many people presume wired to be not as vulnerable as wireless signals, so I can see the NFL boasting about military spec encryption while keeping the old system around to reduce costs.

[Guiness]

Nope, that was my bad. Somehow I missed your post. I agree with you that if the NFL explanation holds any water that the hybrid analog/digital system is the culprit.

Then the only question is why is part of it still analog? Wireless shortcoming with a retrofit (my guess) or legacy equipment (you and Deadspin). Many people presume wired to be not as vulnerable as wireless signals, so I can see the NFL boasting about military spec encryption while keeping the old system around to reduce costs.

What do you mean by wireless shortcomings? Are you talking about the bandwidth issue that was mentioned?

Believe it or not, the FCC filing is interesting (fuck I can be a geek)

[pbmax]

What do you mean by wireless shortcomings? Are you talking about the bandwidth issue that was mentioned?

Believe it or not, the FCC filing is interesting (fuck I can be a geek)

No, I meant the actual effectiveness and reach of the signal. Given the structure of the stadium, concrete and steel (I am assuming here), there must be some places were wireless signals are difficult to carry. So you need a number of extenders or amplifiers. I can see an owner preferring instead of that expense, to use the old system rather than new.

Its just a guess.