"experts" comment on Packers O and what wrong

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

And as far as what experts think, I say phuck em, expert's opinions don't win superbowls.

[Carolina_Packer]

I don't get the point of this paragraph. Are you suggesting TT should have drafted Reed in 2013? Someone other than Rodgers in 2014? In 2013, they still had Finley for the first 6 games. To get Reed, the Packers would have had to take him instead of Lacy in the second round. He was already gone by the Packers pick in the third, which they traded. In 2014 there was a run on TEs ealy in the draft. Ebron was gone before the Packers took HHCD, and three others went in the second before GB took Adams. Green Bay could have taken any of those three in the first instead of HHCD, or could have taken Fiedorowicz in the second instead of Adams. When GB took Rodgers, they could have had Gilmore, who went to the Ravens on the very next pick. After that, no TEs were taken until the 5th and 7th rounds. It was reported the Packers had interest in many of the TEs, but with the rush on TEs early in the 2nd round, there wasn't much left to pick from for the Packers. Rodgers was the 6th TE taken.

I'm not suggesting Rodgers will ever be the elusive target Reed is. It doesn't appear that he will. On the other hand, in his second year, Reed had 50 receptions for 465 yards. Rodgers in his second year had 58 for 510. Finley exceeded 58 receptions just once, in 2012 with 61. Again, I'm not suggesting that Rodgers will ever be the dynamic type of receiver that Finley was, I don't see that ever happening. But I'm not yet sure where and how Rodgers will ultimately fit in next year as a 3rd year player and thereafter. Last year he averaged 11.3 yards/rec. This year, the entire passing offense is way down in average,not just Rodgers. Basically, Rodgers will get little more than the yards the throw covers, but he seems to get open somewhat and catches most of the ones he should. It would be nice if he had the elusiveness of some others, but he doesn't. He can still be serviceable, however.

The point is hoping that TT and staff can draft a more impactful player, relative to where they are being picked in the draft. Washington got Jordan Reed, we got Richard Rodgers, at roughly the same spot (albeit a year apart). Discounting future injuries, I'd say Jordan Reed has a higher upside than Richard Rodgers. It's not really even about Jordan Reed. It's about wanting the team to go after guys like Jordan Reed vs. guys like Richard Rodgers. My comment has nothing to do with the year, who we had on the roster at the time. It's simply that TT may have over-valued the potential of Rodgers, compared with a guy like Jordan Reed. In his third year next year, perhaps Richard Rodgers might jump up and become as impactful as Jordan Reed. I hope so, but will he suddenly become more than his measurable when he was first evaluated?

[mraynrand]

^ Sure, but Patler's point is about trade-offs and when you are drafting for whom and who is available when you are drafting. All those things worked against getting a guy like Reed at TE. Who knows, maybe in the upcoming draft a guy like Reed will be in the Packers' grasp.

[Patler]

That's just it, you can pick only from the ones available when your turn comes up.

If the Packers passing game had clicked this year like last, and R. Rodgers averaged this year anything close to the 11.3 yards per reception that he did in 2014, we might be a littler perturbed about his clumsiness, but might be looking forward to what more is coming from him. Other than James Jones, yardage for the receivers was terrible (ignoring Janis 79 yards on 2 receptions). Cobb was at 10.5, Adams at 9.7. For that reason, I am focusing on Rodgers 58 receptions, more than we have seen from a TE in a long time, except for one year when Finley had 61.

[Bretsky]

Abby can do this as well. He ran a slant for the 2 point conversion. Not the biggest guy and he was in the slot, but somehow he shook his defender and put him on his back.

I agree the loss of Montgomery handicapped us badly. But why GB can't see that Adams is junk is beyond me.

I'd be fine going into next season without him all together.

[Bretsky]

I don't get the point of this paragraph. Are you suggesting TT should have drafted Reed in 2013? Someone other than Rodgers in 2014? In 2013, they still had Finley for the first 6 games. To get Reed, the Packers would have had to take him instead of Lacy in the second round. He was already gone by the Packers pick in the third, which they traded. In 2014 there was a run on TEs ealy in the draft. Ebron was gone before the Packers took HHCD, and three others went in the second before GB took Adams. Green Bay could have taken any of those three in the first instead of HHCD, or could have taken Fiedorowicz in the second instead of Adams. When GB took Rodgers, they could have had Gilmore, who went to the Ravens on the very next pick. After that, no TEs were taken until the 5th and 7th rounds. It was reported the Packers had interest in many of the TEs, but with the rush on TEs early in the 2nd round, there wasn't much left to pick from for the Packers. Rodgers was the 6th TE taken.

I'm not suggesting Rodgers will ever be the elusive target Reed is. It doesn't appear that he will. On the other hand, in his second year, Reed had 50 receptions for 465 yards. Rodgers in his second year had 58 for 510. Finley exceeded 58 receptions just once, in 2012 with 61. Again, I'm not suggesting that Rodgers will ever be the dynamic type of receiver that Finley was, I don't see that ever happening. But I'm not yet sure where and how Rodgers will ultimately fit in next year as a 3rd year player and thereafter. Last year he averaged 11.3 yards/rec. This year, the entire passing offense is way down in average,not just Rodgers. Basically, Rodgers will get little more than the yards the throw covers, but he seems to get open somewhat and catches most of the ones he should. It would be nice if he had the elusiveness of some others, but he doesn't. He can still be serviceable, however.

Is he suggesting Reed was very worthy of being picked there........and RR was not ?

[Bretsky]

He has had several in just the recent games, and seemed to get benched by MM after one, much likes Starks after his last fumble. That is why I said drops or injury might limit his opportunities.

He has too many but he has good hands. How MM benches Abby so quickly and has sunk numerous times with Adams is pretty hyprocritical

[texaspackerbacker]

Its the scramble drill offense. They expect the ball to go to the receiver Rodgers identifies in pre-snap. If because of Rodgers malfunction or O line malfunction (or poor receiver route) that isn't open, then he needs time to reset. And that hadn't been happening for quite a while.

The more I think about it, the more I think Defenses figured out Rodgers offense.

Running was great. What was best was pass protection.

I strongly suggest it's the O Line. Rodgers isn't scrambling because he likes it; He's running for his life - and to make the play succeed. The receivers also are simply doing what they have to do. It's an exaggeration to say they aren't running patterns at all, but it's certainly true that by the time they finish the route as planned, 8 or 9 times out of 10, Rodgers is in no position to get them the ball. You know, it hasn't been that much different for quite a few years with this O Line. The bulk of the problems began when Denver figured out how to jam up the receivers and/or how to keep Rodgers bottled up instead of escaping the pocket.

All of that aside, there seemed to be a glimmer of hope in the second half against Washington. Our O Line wasn't good by any stretch, but they were just a little less bad. Is that glimmer of hope is enough to beat Arizona? I guess we'll find out. I don't think the Cardinals are as good as they played against us last time, and we are very likely better. It's gonna be an uphill battle, though.

[Patler]

I agree the loss of Montgomery handicapped us badly. But why GB can't see that Adams is junk is beyond me.

I'd be fine going into next season without him all together.

Isn't it a little bit early to give up on a player who is two full years younger than Abbrederis? Let's give the kid a chance to mature at least a little before throwing in the towel. He has had a rough year. The entire offense has had a rough year. Did Adams look that bad last year?

[Bretsky]

Isn't it a little bit early to give up on a player who is two full years younger than Abbrederis? Let's give the kid a chance to mature at least a little before throwing in the towel. He has had a rough year. The entire offense has had a rough year. Did Adams look that bad last year?

No, he did not look that bad; but he didn't look good either. His production was down until a flurry at end of year. And then the kool aide came out for this year when Jordy went down. But you are right; gotta give him one more year and with him being drafted where he is reality is he'll get 2.

[Patler]

No, he did not look that bad; but he didn't look good either. His production was down until a flurry at end of year. And then the kool aide came out for this year when Jordy went down. But you are right; gotta give him one more year and with him being drafted where he is reality is he'll get 2.

I disagree, I think he looked good sporadically throughout the year, from early on, about what you might expect from a rookie playing #3 on a team with two others setting records. His first half of the season was much better than the second half. A nice game against NE and the playoff game against Dallas were his significant contributions the second half. Halfway through the year he was on pace to have a rookie year comparable to what Jones and Jennings had.

I will say this much for him, he has had some nice games in some of the bigger games he has been in, NE last year, playoffs last year against Dallas, Redskins before his injury. I'm willing to give him a chance next year before I get down on him, just like I am willing to give Abbrederis a chance to prove he has NFL hands, not just college hands, and can stay reasonable healthy.

[pbmax]

In Pittsburgh, BenR and Todd Haley butted heads over the offensive play calling for a while. Haley was hired (and remember the ownership is involved at a deep level so you know this came from them or was approved by them) to run the ball more to protect BenR from his Bruce Arians deep drop beatings.

Publicly, this struggle revolved around the no-huddle offense, where Ben retained the ability to call his own plays. This was eventually solved by drafting LeVeon Bell, making running very attractive to both the QB and the OC. No idea if they came to terms on anything else.

If Rodgers had Clements feeding him what he liked (no-huddle, which is why returned in a big way in the Washington game), this explains nothing of the mid-season malaise before Clements relinquished play calling. But it might explain some of what happened after M3 re-took the play calling and gameplanning back.

To explain both, it might be that McCarthy is better at giving Rodgers half a loaf, enough of what he wants to get buy-in, and enough of what the offense needs to not jeopardize the rest of the operation.

[pbmax]

I disagree, I think he looked good sporadically throughout the year, from early on, about what you might expect from a rookie playing #3 on a team with two others setting records. His first half of the season was much better than the second half. A nice game against NE and the playoff game against Dallas were his significant contributions the second half. Halfway through the year he was on pace to have a rookie year comparable to what Jones and Jennings had.

I will say this much for him, he has had some nice games in some of the bigger games he has been in, NE last year, playoffs last year against Dallas, Redskins before his injury. I'm willing to give him a chance next year before I get down on him, just like I am willing to give Abbrederis a chance to prove he has NFL hands, not just college hands, and can stay reasonable healthy.

Much of his first year depended on the opponent and the game plan. He was specifically included in the game plans for the Cowboys and Patriots because of their ability to cover two WRs well. At other times, he was almost ignored.

That is not to say he was lights out 100% of the time, but his production in Year 1 was influenced very much by the opponent and the coaches reaction to that defense.

[Patler]

Much of his first year depended on the opponent and the game plan. He was specifically included in the game plans for the Cowboys and Patriots because of their ability to cover two WRs well. At other times, he was almost ignored.

That is not to say he was lights out 100% of the time, but his production in Year 1 was influenced very much by the opponent and the coaches reaction to that defense.

When called on, he came through. He also made the heads up play when Rodgers faked the spike, and hit Adams on the sideline. He made one nice move to advance, but also got out of bounds after being right with Rodgers on the fake.

[Pugger]

I disagree, I think he looked good sporadically throughout the year, from early on, about what you might expect from a rookie playing #3 on a team with two others setting records. His first half of the season was much better than the second half. A nice game against NE and the playoff game against Dallas were his significant contributions the second half. Halfway through the year he was on pace to have a rookie year comparable to what Jones and Jennings had.

I will say this much for him, he has had some nice games in some of the bigger games he has been in, NE last year, playoffs last year against Dallas, Redskins before his injury. I'm willing to give him a chance next year before I get down on him, just like I am willing to give Abbrederis a chance to prove he has NFL hands, not just college hands, and can stay reasonable healthy.

Adams was showing flashes of last year against the 'Skins until he tweaked his knee. I hope he can go Saturday night in AZ.

[Carolina_Packer]

Is he suggesting Reed was very worthy of being picked there........and RR was not ?

Let me amend my comment to say I hope Richard Rodgers in his third year has the same development/production jump that Jordan Reed had this year (his third year).

I get that you can only pick the guys that are available in a given draft. It's more about always hoping that our front office/scouting staff can identify and choose a Jordan Reed type player over a Richard Rodgers type player. No knock on Rodgers individually. Patler pointed out his production being near Finley's from a receptions standpoint, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Rodgers is not light years behind Reed, he's just never going to be as athletically gifted. We all want what is best for Pack, and for our front office to always make the best possible decisions, and hopefully as the picks fall, have the best luck with who is available to them in a given year.

[mraynrand]

It's more about always hoping that our front office/scouting staff can identify and choose a Jordan Reed type player over a Richard Rodgers type player.

I think they can. They just can't always do it in the same year that they have to use the pick on someone else. Of course, sometimes they just miss.

[woodbuck27]

The point is hoping that TT and staff can draft a more impactful player, relative to where they are being picked in the draft. Washington got Jordan Reed, we got Richard Rodgers, at roughly the same spot (albeit a year apart). Discounting future injuries, I'd say Jordan Reed has a higher upside than Richard Rodgers. It's not really even about Jordan Reed. It's about wanting the team to go after guys like Jordan Reed vs. guys like Richard Rodgers. My comment has nothing to do with the year, who we had on the roster at the time. It's simply that TT may have over-valued the potential of Rodgers, compared with a guy like Jordan Reed. In his third year next year, perhaps Richard Rodgers might jump up and become as impactful as Jordan Reed. I hope so, but will he suddenly become more than his measurable when he was first evaluated?

Richard Rodgers can jump and he has adequate hands. Has he been a BIG production TE at the College level? I wouldn't say from what I read that he has so at the NFL level tjhat 's not likely tio change setting aside more targets that will be countered by opposing 'D's \ game planning to easily take that away from R. R. as he has poor feet....he's .............slow

I expect every member of this forum would be very pleased if Jordan Reed came to us in a trade with Washington...RR and a pick for JR. JR would give the Packer 'O' the over the middle strong TE threat, we so badly have wished for throughout the Aaron Rodgers Era. We had a decent one but he needed to grow and then the injuries. The knee injury in 2010 that cost the Packers JerMichael Finley for all but the start of that season. Next up ...the unfortunate career ending injury to NO. 88.

TT's response was Richard Rodgers.....why? What did TT see that got him so excited to draft him. I feel that TT's Scouting Dept. could do a better job if they let go of this 'Diamond in the Rough. dream. The best talent is recruited by the Upper Level college's to drive their football program. A lot of this stuff is fundamental and common sense.

Travel ......to observe a position candidate (Maybe work him out as the rules apply?, Interview 'that GUY'. . . . for 'a Look into his Head, Heart and Soul. Don't fall in Love with a position candidate. REALLY !? TT 'always takes the best available talent available according to his Draft Board...Sure.

Talent comes with a word.

That word is consistency.

Jordan Reed is a solid TE and growing at the NFL level. I've enjoyed, when I can see him .....watching him. I watch the style of play and production of potential impact players at any position. I'm a Pro Pickem' guy so I need to be aware of a lot of stuff.

[Harlan Huckleby]

opposing 'D's \ game planning to easily take that away from R. R. as he has poor feet....he's .............slow

DRod does have some excellent attributes - he's athletic in sense of good body control and pass catching. I can see why he was drafted high. If the blocking had come around, he'd be a good player, although needing a speedy compliment on TE roster.

I suppose I'm giving a "doesn't sweat much for a fat girl" compliment.

[red]

dick rod has no speed, and goes down way too easy

however, he does probably have the best hands on the team, and is good for his back to back catches in just about every game, and not much else

he's a good #2 TE, but he's not the offensive weapon we need IMO