Bosa still unsigned

[Guiness]

Has it been standard for the Chargers? Has it even been standard for 1st round picks generally?

My point is simply it is stupid to have an artificial, probably varying line at some level in the first round for treating bonuses differently.

Hindsight is 20-20 and I'm sure the NFL sees letting these issues to be negotiable at all a mistake. They should've known that agents are looking to justify their existence, so will pick whatever fight they can. On thee other hand, it might be an artificial line but the Chargers know damn well that they're well above it, and are being obstinate. To answer your question Patler, since the new CBA has been in place, no #3 pick has had both deferred money and offset language.

I agree with pbmax that teams want to hold onto the money because if the player goes off his nut, they have a much better chance of keeping it than trying to get it back. Manziel managed to not get paid for the last two years of his "fully guaranteed" contract.

[pbmax]

Has it been standard for the Chargers? Has it even been standard for 1st round picks generally?

My point is simply it is stupid to have an artificial, probably varying line at some level in the first round for treating bonuses differently.

After the 2012 CBA made slotting iron clad, I can't believe its not baked into the contract terms.

[call_me_ishmael]

I live near Columbus. I've seen him a lot. Bosa is a very good prospect. He's not a can't-miss prospect or short order "beast" though. He relied extensively on his superior size and strength in college, along with having a lot of superior talent around him in defensive support. All those advantages are now gone at the NFL level. He's not a guy with freakish speed that can just beat NFL OTs from a three point stance. He doesn't have a wide array of pass rush moves and will need to learn and adapt. However, he is technically sound with his hands and feet for the most part, so I don't think he will be prone to becoming a total flop.

He needs to get his ass into camp and start figuring out what it takes to succeed in the NFL...because I'm not sure he's a kid who has ever had to really WORK to get ahead in football to this point. Some guys relish that challenge...some guys shrink from it. Only time will tell which group Bosa falls into.

Respectfully, I see some of what you're seeing but he was a clear stud in college that made the players around him better. We'll see if that translates to the pros. I think his athleticism numbers are clearly a cut above many other linemen.

[Patler]

On thee other hand, it might be an artificial line but the Chargers know damn well that they're well above it, and are being obstinate. To answer your question Patler, since the new CBA has been in place, no #3 pick has had both deferred money and offset language.

I agree with pbmax that teams want to hold onto the money because if the player goes off his nut, they have a much better chance of keeping it than trying to get it back. Manziel managed to not get paid for the last two years of his "fully guaranteed" contract.

From the team's perspective, should the Packers be bound to follow a negotiable term in the same way that teams like Cleveland, Detroit, TB, etc. think is a good idea? If it's negotiable, it's negotiable; and maybe more successful organizations who seldom find themselves in those positions really do have better approaches.

My personal opinion, when a contract really is guaranteed, offset should be automatic. The player should be embarrassed to double dip for failing.

[Patler]

After the 2012 CBA made slotting iron clad, I can't believe its not baked into the contract terms.

Ya, had to have been an oversight, something they didn't even think of.

[pbmax]

Ya, had to have been an oversight, something they didn't even think of.

They also missed guarantees and claw backs I think.

[Guiness]

From the team's perspective, should the Packers be bound to follow a negotiable term in the same way that teams like Cleveland, Detroit, TB, etc. think is a good idea? If it's negotiable, it's negotiable; and maybe more successful organizations who seldom find themselves in those positions really do have better approaches.

My personal opinion, when a contract really is guaranteed, offset should be automatic. The player should be embarrassed to double dip for failing.

No, they are not bound, but if they don't follow the precedent, moving to terms more favorable to them (and less favorable to labour) without offering something in return, they are bound to get some push back. Which they are.

Taking "labour's" approach, maybe the team failed to provide the player with the necessary opportunity to succeed, and should be embarassed? See: Lions, Detroit. Collecting a (relatively) little extra money seems fair payment for the 2-3 years of your very short career the drafting team burned through.

[Patler]

No, they are not bound, but if they don't follow the precedent, moving to terms more favorable to them (and less favorable to labour) without offering something in return, they are bound to get some push back. Which they are.

Taking "labour's" approach, maybe the team failed to provide the player with the necessary opportunity to succeed, and should be embarassed? See: Lions, Detroit. Collecting a (relatively) little extra money seems fair payment for the 2-3 years of your very short career the drafting team burned through.

Of course there is pushback. I'm sure they expect it, no matter what they say publicly. However, I won't condemn them for doing it, as some seem to want to.

How many failed early 1st round picks. who are cut before their contract expires, go on to a decent career anywhere else? I also abhor golden parachutes in the corporate world.

[Guiness]

Of course there is pushback. I'm sure they expect it, no matter what they say publicly. However, I won't condemn them for doing it, as some seem to want to.

How many failed early 1st round picks. who are cut before their contract expires, go on to a decent career anywhere else? I also abhor golden parachutes in the corporate world.

Tim Couch! no, wait, Courtney Brown! no, wait, William Green! no, wait, Brady Quinn! no, wait, Brandon Weeden! no, wait Trent Richardson! no wait...Oh, nevermind.

Admittedly, it doesn't seem to happen a whole lot, I can't remember one. Still, I don't like the concept of offset language. If I get fired, I'm entitled to severance pay. If I got 6 weeks severance, should I have to pay it back if I get a new job 2 weeks later?

[Patler]

Tim Couch! no, wait, Courtney Brown! no, wait, William Green! no, wait, Brady Quinn! no, wait, Brandon Weeden! no, wait Trent Richardson! no wait...Oh, nevermind.

Admittedly, it doesn't seem to happen a whole lot, I can't remember one. Still, I don't like the concept of offset language. If I get fired, I'm entitled to severance pay. If I got 6 weeks severance, should I have to pay it back if I get a new job 2 weeks later?

Limited severance pay is one thing, years of guarantee are another. He doesn't lose anything when an offset applies, he gets all that he originally expected. He just doesn't get to double dip for having failed.

Besides, your severance pay, if of any length, is earned for service time. The first round flop generally flopped from the get-go (unless due to injury, like Courtney Brown), so it is hard to say he "earned" a double dip.

[Zool]

Respectfully, I see some of what you're seeing but he was a clear stud in college that made the players around him better. We'll see if that translates to the pros. I think his athleticism numbers are clearly a cut above many other linemen.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7577

[Guiness]

Limited severance pay is one thing, years of guarantee are another. He doesn't lose anything when an offset applies, he gets all that he originally expected. He just doesn't get to double dip for having failed.

Besides, your severance pay, if of any length, is earned for service time. The first round flop generally flopped from the get-go (unless due to injury, like Courtney Brown), so it is hard to say he "earned" a double dip.

But if an employer was able to claw-back severance, the employee wouldn't lose anything, he'd get the pay he would've! There are differences, but a lot of similarities as well.

I personally got tossed by an employer because they made an bad decision. Hired an electrical engineer then found out they had no need and tried to fit me into a maintenance role. After moving towns, 8 months later found myself unemployed. Double-dipped for a bit, but sure didn't feel guilty about collecting the severance I did!

[pbmax]

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7577

He's got it alright. Just a winner.

[call_me_ishmael]

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7577

I know people like to rip on me for saying Vince Young had "it". He did have "it", though. He was rookie of the year, 2x pro bowler, and a dark horse MVP candidate. Eventually he succumbed to some mental health and injury issues and his career went down hill in a hurry.

I don't think that takes away from the great things he did as a player and the phenomenal talent he was.

Given Joey Bosa's lack of medical or mental concerns (that we know of), I fail to see the comparison at this time.

BTW, I am sure someone could easily pull up instances where you're wrong about a player too. Sorry man. I was wrong about Vince Young being a sustained great player. His greatness was short lived due to injury and mental health.

[Radagast]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ?

[Guiness]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ?

Cuz it's the offseason?

[Radagast]

Cuz it's the offseason?

I see your "Cuz" and raise you a " What ? "

[Patler]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ?

Well... this is the only NFL area. Typically we have a lot of "other" threads running for around the league info, such as:

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...penings-Thread

Generally, nobody gets their nose bent out of shape over the occasional specific, but non-Packer threads that come and go quickly from time to time, except of course for the occasional new poster who thinks they can make their mark by being a troublemaker.

[Patler]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ?

By the way, your style is very reminiscent of another poster who had several reincarnations here in the past. Not an accusation, just an observation.

[Upnorth]

On another unrelated note, anyone heard from woody?