R-E-L-A-X

[HarveyWallbangers]

I kind of like how this team looks. I think a lot of the blame can actually fall on Rodgers and McCarthy. Rodgers is just out of sync. However, I think Adams and Cobb look healthy. Jordy is getting into shape. Cook will be a weapon. Lacy looks good. The defense looks solid.

McCarthy doesn't need to prove to people that he's not a conservative coach. If you have a chance to tie a ball game late in the third quarter against a stout defense, you do it. That changed the complexion of the game. I'd like to see them go with four WR sets and mix in Abby and Monty more. Cobb and Abby or Monty (rotating them) in the slot to give DBs a different look. I'd also like to see them with a set where Cobb and Monty are in the backfield together. Mix things up. The offense is too stagnant. Give Lacy more carries also. He looks good. I know they want to keep him fresh, but he needs a few more carries.

Rodgers needs to get back to fundamentals and he needs to quit holding onto the ball. He gets in these ruts from time to time. My biggest concern is Sam Shields. This team is a lot different without him. Somebody that you don't appreciate until he's not in there. It's a bit like losing Jordy at WR. It just throws the hole hierarchy out of whack.

We'll see, but our next 9 games are:

All at home: Detroit, Giants, Dallas, Chicago
At Atlanta
Indy at home
At Tennessee, at Washington, at Philadelphia

[RashanGary]

There are a lot of reasons to feel good about this team! They have the making of a good running team and they have a good defensive front. Like you said, with a healthy shields we have a good secondary too. Let's see how it all blends together before we jump to conclusions.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ain't gonna relax 'til the offense starts playing like 2011 again.

[Pugger]

If we think about it we went on the road against a divisional rival who was christening a shiny new greenhouse with a very good defense. We played like garbage at times and came up short because MM foolishly didn't go for the sure points to tie the game and that was the difference. Detroit ain't MN and I just can't see MN going to Carolina without the threat of AP and winning there next week.

[vince]

I kind of like how this team looks. I think a lot of the blame can actually fall on Rodgers and McCarthy. Rodgers is just out of sync. However, I think Adams and Cobb look healthy. Jordy is getting into shape. Cook will be a weapon. Lacy looks good. The defense looks solid.

McCarthy doesn't need to prove to people that he's not a conservative coach. If you have a chance to tie a ball game late in the third quarter against a stout defense, you do it. That changed the complexion of the game. I'd like to see them go with four WR sets and mix in Abby and Monty more. Cobb and Abby or Monty (rotating them) in the slot to give DBs a different look. I'd also like to see them with a set where Cobb and Monty are in the backfield together. Mix things up. The offense is too stagnant. Give Lacy more carries also. He looks good. I know they want to keep him fresh, but he needs a few more carries.

Rodgers needs to get back to fundamentals and he needs to quit holding onto the ball. He gets in these ruts from time to time. My biggest concern is Sam Shields. This team is a lot different without him. Somebody that you don't appreciate until he's not in there. It's a bit like losing Jordy at WR. It just throws the hole hierarchy out of whack.

We'll see, but our next 9 games are:

All at home: Detroit, Giants, Dallas, Chicago
At Atlanta
Indy at home
At Tennessee, at Washington, at Philadelphia

Good post. I think the biggest thing is Rodgers getting the ball out. Get the tempo of the offense up instead of running the play clock down from no-huddle trying to out-scheme the D at the line every play.

[texaspackerbacker]

I still say the bulk of the blame falls on the O Line. Sure, Rodgers shoulda had better ball security, but he never shoulda had to run for his life like that over and over and over. If Rodgers only had time to drop back, allow receivers to run a pattern, and throw it, but he virtually never does.

I blame McCarthy - as usual, games won and games lost - for lousy play calling. Too much run-first, even run twice then force a situation where the whole world knows a pass is needed on 3rd and long or medium. It's like he tries to kill the clock for about 3 1/2 quarters then expects Rodgers to bring home a win at the end. I wish he'd get it through his head, what works in desperation time would work all game. Hell, there shouldn't/wouldn't even be a desperation time.

I blame Ted Thompson for not building a better team around Rodgers. Other teams find gems like Hurns/Robinson and Diggs; We get stuck with Davante Adams. We draft a Corner in the first and get stuck with Damarious Randall. Ditto that for just about every position group. Other teams actually cough up some money for a worthwhile free agent occasionally. Why does just about everybody's O Line outplay our D Line? Why does just about everybody's D Line outplay our O Line? I'll tell you why; Because for Thompson/McCarthy, good enough is good enough - they never maximize things. And the result of that mediocrity is sometimes, good enough is not good enough, even with Aaron Rodgers STILL masking shortcomings in just about every area of the team.

And WHY in hell did they cut a very decent rookie and and adequate veteran to get this all out piece of shit punter?

[pbmax]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

[run pMc]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

So...pass to set up the run? Doesn't that usually involve the short-passing game? Wouldn't that be something our quicker slot WRs could do (Cobb, Ty, Abbrederis)?
It seemed like they couldn't sustain any drives; they'd run Lacy on 1st down for 4 yards, then Rodgers would throw two incompletions.

[Maxie the Taxi]

So...pass to set up the run? Doesn't that usually involve the short-passing game? Wouldn't that be something our quicker slot WRs could do (Cobb, Ty, Abbrederis)?
It seemed like they couldn't sustain any drives; they'd run Lacy on 1st down for 4 yards, then Rodgers would throw two incompletions.

I just watched the first quarter over again and on several occasions Arod could have thrown short cause a guy was open, but opted to go downfield. He and Stubby like big plays. It's what they do.

[pbmax]

So...pass to set up the run? Doesn't that usually involve the short-passing game? Wouldn't that be something our quicker slot WRs could do (Cobb, Ty, Abbrederis)?
It seemed like they couldn't sustain any drives; they'd run Lacy on 1st down for 4 yards, then Rodgers would throw two incompletions.

McCarthy's offense, going back to Favre, has never done 12 short passes per drive for Touchdowns. They are looking deep much, much more.

When forced to keep it short, you get what we have seen for the last 16 games.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

Yeah but ........ I'm pretty sure that ratio was extremely back loaded on passes - desperation time, after the damage was done. If you have a dominant O Line and/or a mediocre QB, then you run-first. If you have a very mediocre O Line and the world's greatest QB, you PASS FIRST, and maybe catch 'em by surprise once in a while with a run. That should be obvious - but it ain't to McCarthy, and seemingly to many in this forum.

[pbmax]

Yeah but ........ I'm pretty sure that ratio was extremely back loaded on passes - desperation time, after the damage was done. If you have a dominant O Line and/or a mediocre QB, then you run-first. If you have a very mediocre O Line and the world's greatest QB, you PASS FIRST, and maybe catch 'em by surprise once in a while with a run. That should be obvious - but it ain't to McCarthy, and seemingly to many in this forum.

It was 15 passes and 9 runs in the first half tex.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...N_Gamebook.pdf

[texaspackerbacker]

It was 15 passes and 9 runs in the first half tex.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...N_Gamebook.pdf

Like I said. That's not nearly enough with this QB and this O Line. If you want to break down the numbers more, how many of those passes were in obvious passing situations because they frittered away one or two downs with lame ass runs?

[Carolina_Packer]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

Whether intentional or not, the perception seems to be we must win with Aaron throwing a lot instead of simply calling the game and adjusting. If Lacy gets a hot hand, or Starks, then let them have more focus during that particular game. If the opponent knows that you are forcing a game plan, they are going just change to the template that defenses have used to stop the Packers offense since the slump started last season. Is MM willing to try and emphasize Lacy and run game more, try and establish the run more instead of letting it disappear in a one score game, or does he feel "obligated" by pay or perception of his star QB to ride Aaron's talents no matter what? Sometimes trying harder is the worst thing you can do.

[texaspackerbacker]

Whether intentional or not, the perception seems to be we must win with Aaron throwing a lot instead of simply calling the game and adjusting. If Lacy gets a hot hand, or Starks, then let them have more focus during that particular game. If the opponent knows that you are forcing a game plan, they are going just change to the template that defenses have used to stop the Packers offense since the slump started last season. Is MM willing to try and emphasize Lacy and run game more, try and establish the run more instead of letting it disappear in a one score game, or does he feel "obligated" by pay or perception of his star QB to ride Aaron's talents no matter what? Sometimes trying harder is the worst thing you can do.

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

[Pugger]

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

I wonder how often Rodgers changes run plays at the LOS to a pass play?

I do think we should run Eddie into the ground. Most backs like him only get better if they get a lot of touches and wear out a defense.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wonder how often Rodgers changes run plays at the LOS to a pass play?

I do think we should run Eddie into the ground. Most backs like him only get better if they get a lot of touches and wear out a defense.

Most RBs like him and not like him are running behind a decent O Line.

[Radagast]

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

When a team has 1 or more above average RBs, Running the football becomes a no-brainier . (1) It protects the football as yardage is gained. (2) It provides the Team/Offense a way to eat clock and
rest the Defense . (3) It keeps opposing Defenses honest about rushing the QB . and (4) A good running attack can reduce putting the entire success of the Offense on the QB's shoulders .

Too many fans believe in the instant success, the flashy Offense , the lightning attack. Tex , as usual , has gotten it wrong. All Offensive linemen have, sense they began playing the sport, been taught to run block first . It is part of the fundamentals of their positions . Pass blocking is something that is added as the seasons accumulate . MM is most correct to utilize his running attack and have it develop into a stronger force as the season progresses . Now especially as the passing game is still suffering from a bad case of "slow" .

[Pugger]

Whether intentional or not, the perception seems to be we must win with Aaron throwing a lot instead of simply calling the game and adjusting. If Lacy gets a hot hand, or Starks, then let them have more focus during that particular game. If the opponent knows that you are forcing a game plan, they are going just change to the template that defenses have used to stop the Packers offense since the slump started last season. Is MM willing to try and emphasize Lacy and run game more, try and establish the run more instead of letting it disappear in a one score game, or does he feel "obligated" by pay or perception of his star QB to ride Aaron's talents no matter what? Sometimes trying harder is the worst thing you can do.

Yes, whatever became of the notion of taking what the damn defense gives you?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cook might turn out to be a good player who is not an elite receiver. This is his eighth season, if he was really Jermichael Finley he would be outside of TT's price range.