Bears QBs, Cutler's future, the Bears generally

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I wrote they don't need a lot of help, I didn't say they don't need any help. I stated in several posts that they need the lions to lose one other game. Obviously, GB does not control that game result. However, I fully expect the lions to lose one other game, so that caused to to omit "mostly" in stating they control their own fate. I think my intent was clear to everyone, except perhaps you.

Expecting the Lions to lose a game, no matter how likely, doesn't change damn thing at this point in space-time: the Packers currently DO NOT control their destiny - thanks in large part to the 4 game losing streak (something Sherman's teams never experienced).

[Patler]

Expecting the Lions to lose a game, no matter how likely, doesn't change damn thing at this point in space-time: the Packers currently DO NOT control their destiny - thanks in large part to the 4 game losing streak (something Sherman's teams never experienced).

Did I not write in at least three different posts that they need someone else to beat the Lions?
Did I not say that my expectation that the Lions would lose another game caused me to omit "mostly" in stating they control their own fate?
Did I ever write that my expectation caused them to control their own destiny?

Since I repeated at least four times in three different posts that they need another team to beat the Lions, I submit that the intent of my post was clear to everyone except perhaps you, especially since you apparently also misread the post you quoted in your last message.

So, what does 2010 have to do with this???

[Patler]

- thanks in large part to the 4 game losing streak (something Sherman's teams never experienced).

Something else that Sherman's teams never experienced - winning an NFC Championship game.
Another thing that Sherman's teams never experienced - even playing in an NFC Championship game by winnnig a Division playoff game
Yet another thing that Sherman's teams never experienced - playing in a Super Bowl.
Still another thing never experienced by Sherman's teams - winning a Super Bowl.

MM's/TT's teams have done all of the above. I'm surprised you haven't pointed that out to us!?

[Pugger]

Something else that Sherman's teams never experienced - winning an NFC Championship game.
Another thing that Sherman's teams never experienced - even playing in an NFC Championship game by winnnig a Division playoff game
Yet another thing that Sherman's teams never experienced - playing in a Super Bowl.
Still another thing never experienced by Sherman's teams - winning a Super Bowl.

MM's/TT's teams have done all of the above. I'm surprised you haven't pointed that out to us!?

This goof is still pining for Sherman - the guy who can't even get a job in D-3 today.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Did I not write in at least three different posts that they need someone else to beat the Lions?
Did I not say that my expectation that the Lions would lose another game caused me to omit "mostly" in stating they control their own fate?
Did I ever write that my expectation caused them to control their own destiny?

Since I repeated at least four times in three different posts that they need another team to beat the Lions, I submit that the intent of my post was clear to everyone except perhaps you, especially since you apparently also misread the post you quoted in your last message.

So, what does 2010 have to do with this???

You wrote, and I'll quote again: "(The Packers) control their own destiny, needing only one other team to beat Detroit."

That's like saying, "This is not Detroit man, this is the Super Bowl!", in a game that clearly wasn't the Super Bowl.

Stop contradicting yourself and see the error of your ways.

At this point, Packers DON'T control their own destiny. If Detriot goes 4-0 in the next 4 weeks, they will clinch the North no matter what the Packers do - in this case, the finale would be meaningless in terms of winning the division.

2010 is an example of how the Pack eventually ended up controlling its "own destiny"...Thanks, D-Jax!

[hoosier]

Expecting the Lions to lose a game, no matter how likely, doesn't change damn thing at this point in space-time: the Packers currently DO NOT control their destiny - thanks in large part to the 4 game losing streak (something Sherman's teams never experienced).

You might want to take another look at Shermy's last season. The first four games, to be specific.

[ThunderDan]

You might want to take another look at Shermy's last season. The first four games, to be specific.

But in Tank's world that was TT's year. Sherman kills the depth and talent as GM for years, hands a depleted team in cap trouble to TT, then blames TT for not being able to turn the team around top to bottom in 6 months.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

But in Tank's world that was TT's year

Correct. 4-12 was Ted's Team.

You don't go 10-6 one year with a still productive, Canton-bound QB and then 4-12 the next - unless you dismantle the team. Thompson dismantled Sherman's playoffs team. The Polar Bear conspired to tank that season, partly b/c he wanted a top 10 pick and partly b/c he needed an excuse to fire Sherman, who averaged 11 wins as GM/Coach.

The irony, to some, is that Thompson, a cheap-ass, gave Sherman a lucrative contract extension prior to the season. I don't think Thompson is cheap. He's just incompetent. Just as Alvarez lacked the skill to lure elite QBs to Wisconsin, the Polar Bear lacks the skill to lure elite free agents to Green Bay despite tons of resources.

[Teamcheez1]

Criticizing TT and MM is fair game, but when you couple that with bestowing laurels upon Mike Sherman, you have gone off the deep end.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Criticizing TT and MM is fair game, but when you couple that with bestowing laurels upon Mike Sherman, you have gone off the deep end.

What's with the "hate" for the Shermaninator? Many uncool Pack fans seem to think Sherman was a worse GM/Coach than Dan Devine.

Sherman averaged 11 wins as GM/Coach. Never missed the playoffs. Utilized all aspects of the game.

And the 2004 Packers ended up with the 24th pick. Team started, what, 1-4? Sherman got team out of that hole. Had team not make the playoffs and ended up with a top 20 pick, no way Thompson drafts the Great Arm of Butte.

[Freak Out]

SF must really suck.

[pbmax]

Correct. 4-12 was Ted's Team.

You don't go 10-6 one year with a still productive, Canton-bound QB and then 4-12 the next - unless you dismantle the team. Thompson dismantled Sherman's playoffs team. The Polar Bear conspired to tank that season, partly b/c he wanted a top 10 pick and partly b/c he needed an excuse to fire Sherman, who averaged 11 wins as GM/Coach.

Always forgetting the salary cap problem that Patler broke down for us.

[run pMc]

Always forgetting the salary cap problem that Patler broke down for us.

Well, that. Plus I seem to recall that being the year basically everybody got hurt (Driver, Ferguson, Walker, Terrence Murphy(!)) and the Taco Wallaces and Samkon Gados of the world played on the same field as almighty Bert. That much attrition was worse than last year at WR.


Sherman was a better coach than GM, and it isn't even close. (B.J Sander? Joe Johnson?)
I think he was a decent coach, actually, although I thought him too deferential to Favre, and his failure to go for it on 4th and 1 against the Eagles towards the end of the 4th and 26th game still makes me shake my head.

[hoosier]

Correct. 4-12 was Ted's Team.

You don't go 10-6 one year with a still productive, Canton-bound QB and then 4-12 the next - unless you dismantle the team. Thompson dismantled Sherman's playoffs team. The Polar Bear conspired to tank that season, partly b/c he wanted a top 10 pick and partly b/c he needed an excuse to fire Sherman, who averaged 11 wins as GM/Coach.

Interesting. So what exactly does "dismantling" a team with aging stars that lost a home wildcard game by two TDs to Minnesota entail? Was it letting the starting guards go? Was that the difference between 10-6 and 4-12?

[Guiness]

Well, that. Plus I seem to recall that being the year basically everybody got hurt (Driver, Ferguson, Walker, Terrence Murphy(!)) and the Taco Wallaces and Samkon Gados of the world played on the same field as almighty Bert. That much attrition was worse than last year at WR.


Sherman was a better coach than GM, and it isn't even close. (B.J Sander? Joe Johnson?)

lol at the Joe Johnson mention! Haven't heard that name in a while. The guy did not miss many games, other than a lost season in '99. He played 16 games in 97, 98, 00 and 01. Gets to GB and the wheels fall right off the wagon.

[Patler]

[B]
- thanks in large part to the 4 game losing streak (something Sherman's teams never experienced).

You might want to take another look at Shermy's last season. The first four games, to be specific.

Or, you might want to look at weeks, 2, 3, 4 and 5 of the 2004 season, when Sherman was both GM and HC.

[Patler]

You don't go 10-6 one year with a still productive, Canton-bound QB and then 4-12 the next - unless you dismantle the team. Thompson dismantled Sherman's playoffs team. The Polar Bear conspired to tank that season, partly b/c he wanted a top 10 pick and partly b/c he needed an excuse to fire Sherman, who averaged 11 wins as GM/Coach.

You might want to look more closely at that 10-6 team. They won 10 games without beating a single team that ended the season with a winning record. That was part of the sham of Sherman's teams. They played in a weak division, and had some "fortunate" schedules. His teams were growing progressively less competitive, but still managed to reach the playoffs because of the weak division they played in, and some weak overall schedules.

There wasn't much to dismantle from his last team. He had done most of it himself.

[Zool]

What's with the "hate" for the Shermaninator? Many uncool Pack fans seem to think Sherman was a worse GM/Coach than Dan Devine.

Sherman averaged 11 wins as GM/Coach. Never missed the playoffs. Utilized all aspects of the game.

And the 2004 Packers ended up with the 24th pick. Team started, what, 1-4? Sherman got team out of that hole. Had team not make the playoffs and ended up with a top 20 pick, no way Thompson drafts the Great Arm of Butte.

He was handed Favre and Ahman Green. I could coach them to a winning record.

[Fritz]

I still think Ahman Green was the best running back to wear a Packers uniform in many, many, many years. That guy was a monster, and he was fast. I think he blocked okay, too.

[Patler]

I still think Ahman Green was the best running back to wear a Packers uniform in many, many, many years. That guy was a monster, and he was fast. I think he blocked okay, too.

Yes, very good blocker, and great out of the backfield as a receiver. People tend to forget that when he first came to GB he would have 50-70 receptions a year for 400-600 yards. As the Packers found other capable 3rd down backs, passing situations became opportunities to rest him and better manage his asthma. He was as complete of a RB as there was. Even threw a few option passes.