Vic Ketchmab calls a spade a spade with fans who live in fantasy

[RashanGary]

http://m.packers.com/news/article/he...0-fe68481d13c0

Vic, it appears Ted knows what he is doing in free agency. I feel Peppers and Cook have been key to our winning streak. Do you think fans will now believe in draft and develop with a key signing now and again?

The savvy fans get it. They understand the nuances of the salary cap and roster turnover, and the devastating long-term impact a big free-agent contract gone bad can have on a team. The I-want-it-now fans will never get it because they lack appreciation for the total game. Their vision is narrow. They see only player-acquisition and play-calling.

[RashanGary]

It's so true. Some people only can see the shiny ball. They can't see the cost. It's like a mental block.

[vince]

It's amazing that the Packers get their greatest win since the Super Bowl and some fans still can't help but rip play-calling and player acquisition.

Since the Packers won the Super Bowl, they are the league's BEST team successfully finishing games with a fourth quarter lead - THE BEST.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...der_by=pass_td

McCarthy knows what he's doing finishing games. That's a proven fact.

[Guiness]

It's amazing that the Packers get their greatest win since the Super Bowl and some fans still can't help but rip play-calling and player acquisition.

Since the Packers won the Super Bowl, they are the league's BEST team successfully finishing games with a fourth quarter lead - THE BEST.

McCarthy knows what he's doing finishing games. That's a proven fact.

Shit though, couldn't he have done something else yesterday? I mean, we haven't heard from oldbutnotdeadyet, I can only assume he had a coronary!

[King Friday]

McCarthy knows what he's doing finishing games. That's a proven fact.

Perhaps...it doesn't change the other proven fact that the run that lost 5 yards...which was also unsuccessful last week on a moronic 4th down attempt...needs to be taken away from Stubby because he can't use it properly.

[vince]

Perhaps...it doesn't change the other proven fact that the run that lost 5 yards...which was also unsuccessful last week on a moronic 4th down attempt...needs to be taken away from Stubby because he can't use it properly.

That run that Spriggs whiffed on was unsuccessful in gaining yards. It was successful in keeping them within field goal range and it forced Dallas to use their second timeout which was most important.

Having only one timeout left on Dallas' final drive helped the defense out by making it risky to use the middle of the field without a timeout to spare besides the one they would need to keep in their back pocket to make sure they can stop the clock to get the field goal team on the field.

Dallas did use the middle of the field to drive rather quickly down the field. BUT that run which protected the opportunity for the go-ahead field goal ALSO helped the defense just enough by forcing Dak to spike the ball on the last first down rather than take the time out they needed to save, which wasted what turned out to be a very important down for them and allowed just enough time on the clock for the Packers to secure the win.

That's what we know. Some hypothetical alternative to that success is nothing but hot air.

[pbmax]

That run that Spriggs whiffed on was unsuccessful in gaining yards. It was successful in keeping them within field goal range and it forced Dallas to use their second timeout which was most important.
.

But it made the FG more difficult. It was already at the end of his effective range.

I like being aggressive here, especially facing another 50 yard FG. So I don't want him to kneel. But run-run-run in heavy packages invites the kind of loss of yardage that happened to the 4 minute offense in Seattle. This was a repeat. And even more predictable. The D is going to shoot gaps to make this happen.

Tactically, I understand. Lowest possible chance of turnover, still chance of gaining yards, drain the clock/TO. But when you telegraph your play AND you stink out loud in short yardage, you seriously lower any chance of yardage gained and increase the risk of losing yardage for your kicker.

You have to match the tactics to the opponent and to the game situation. The Packers have seen Crosby miss these long ones before. Its not a done deal from 50+ yards out and they do not have a lead to fall back on.

Trust your QB while calling a conservative, heavier run package. Don't pull the plug once you hit 50 yard FG range.

[Fritz]

But it made the FG more difficult. It was already at the end of his effective range.

I like being aggressive here, especially facing another 50 yard FG. So I don't want him to kneel. But run-run-run in heavy packages invites the kind of loss of yardage that happened to the 4 minute offense in Seattle. This was a repeat. And even more predictable. The D is going to shoot gaps to make this happen.

Tactically, I understand. Lowest possible chance of turnover, still chance of gaining yards, drain the clock/TO. But when you telegraph your play AND you stink out loud in short yardage, you seriously lower any chance of yardage gained and increase the risk of losing yardage for your kicker.

You have to match the tactics to the opponent and to the game situation. The Packers have seen Crosby miss these long ones before. Its not a done deal from 50+ yards out and they do not have a lead to fall back on.

Trust your QB while calling a conservative, heavier run package. Don't pull the plug once you hit 50 yard FG range.

What he say.

This is the best-articulated criticism I've seen of that second run call.

And is this the second time Jason Spriggs has missed a block on one of these types of runs in the last two weeks? That big, "this is it" moment?

[vince]

But it made the FG more difficult. It was already at the end of his effective range.

I like being aggressive here, especially facing another 50 yard FG. So I don't want him to kneel. But run-run-run in heavy packages invites the kind of loss of yardage that happened to the 4 minute offense in Seattle. This was a repeat. And even more predictable. The D is going to shoot gaps to make this happen.

Tactically, I understand. Lowest possible chance of turnover, still chance of gaining yards, drain the clock/TO. But when you telegraph your play AND you stink out loud in short yardage, you seriously lower any chance of yardage gained and increase the risk of losing yardage for your kicker.

You have to match the tactics to the opponent and to the game situation. The Packers have seen Crosby miss these long ones before. Its not a done deal from 50+ yards out and they do not have a lead to fall back on.

Trust your QB while calling a conservative, heavier run package. Don't pull the plug once you hit 50 yard FG range.

What you have to do is win the game. A 5-yard loss as a result of a complete whiff of a block still helped win that game. The way the game played out from there, an incompletion in that same circumstance may well have helped lose it. At minimum, it very likely would have eliminated the Packers final game-winning drive.

[bobblehead]

That run that Spriggs whiffed on was unsuccessful in gaining yards. It was successful in keeping them within field goal range and it forced Dallas to use their second timeout which was most important.

Having only one timeout left on Dallas' final drive helped the defense out by making it risky to use the middle of the field without a timeout to spare besides the one they would need to keep in their back pocket to make sure they can stop the clock to get the field goal team on the field.

Dallas did use the middle of the field to drive rather quickly down the field. BUT that run which protected the opportunity for the go-ahead field goal ALSO helped the defense just enough by forcing Dak to spike the ball on the last first down rather than take the time out they needed to save, which wasted what turned out to be a very important down for them and allowed just enough time on the clock for the Packers to secure the win.

That's what we know. Some hypothetical alternative to that success is nothing but hot air.

Kept us in FG range?? A 56 yarder is hardly the way I want to sew the game up. He owes Crosby a handy at minimum!

Edit:...I'm actually not done yet. Needed a 56 yard and 51 yard FG to be successful, and needed Rodgers to complete a ridiculous pass for a huge chunk of yards down the sideline. Did it work? Sure, but I guess you could say Pete Carroll was flawless in the NFCC against us because his team covered the onside kick.

[vince]

Kept us in FG range?? A 56 yarder is hardly the way I want to sew the game up. He owes Crosby a handy at minimum!

Edit:...I'm actually not done yet. Needed a 56 yard and 51 yard FG to be successful, and needed Rodgers to complete a ridiculous pass for a huge chunk of yards down the sideline. Did it work? Sure, but I guess you could say Pete Carroll was flawless in the NFCC against us because his team covered the onside kick.

Yes, Crosby nailed the field goals - all of them. Equally important to the successful conclusion of this game was the forcing of Dallas to use thier spare timeouts, which made possible the final game-winning drive and a huge playoff upset on the road.

The rest is all here in this thread bobble so I'm done using the reality of success to defend against one-sided fantasy scenarios. Sorry pal.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's amazing that the Packers get their greatest win since the Super Bowl and some fans still can't help but rip play-calling and player acquisition.

Since the Packers won the Super Bowl, they are the league's BEST team successfully finishing games with a fourth quarter lead - THE BEST.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...der_by=pass_td

McCarthy knows what he's doing finishing games. That's a proven fact.

And why exactly is that? AARON RODGERS! That one absolutely fantastic draft move - getting Rodgers - has made up for a huge amount of mediocrity and not maximizing things.

[bobblehead]

It's amazing that the Packers get their greatest win since the Super Bowl and some fans still can't help but rip play-calling and player acquisition.

Since the Packers won the Super Bowl, they are the league's BEST team successfully finishing games with a fourth quarter lead - THE BEST.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...der_by=pass_td

McCarthy knows what he's doing finishing games. That's a proven fact.

I only questioned 2 play calls this game. Both the runs into the teeth of a D that was stacked to cause a loss and a 56 yard FG that my dead grandma knew were coming. I am overall a fan of MM and have defended him (to quote trump) "very bigly' in the past. The man likes to start counting possessions and playing a soft D too often. As for the stat...well, stats can be manipulated. And any stat showing you are good at something like winning with a lead and the best QB in the game can be misleading.

MM is a great game planner (when his head is in it...like week 8 to the end of the season). He is very good at developing players. He is very good at keeping his team on an even emotional keel. He is good at sticking with a player through a rough patch....he sucks at sticking with a bad player he likes.

[vince]

A lot of fans (and some desperate GM's) over-react to stuff. McCarthy and Thompson do not.

[mmmdk]

This thread is the best, Jerry, the best! with a

[Tony Oday]

Loved missing the Super BOWL and losing to the Seachickens, we don't need a vet ILB, a shutdown corner is totally overrated. TT is lucky he has AR.

[RashanGary]

Loved missing the Super BOWL and losing to the Seachickens, we don't need a vet ILB, a shutdown corner is totally overrated. TT is lucky he has AR.

No, you're lucky you have TT.

[smuggler]

Why not both? TT is a top10 GM. Probably top5. AR is top1.

[bobblehead]

Why not both? TT is a top10 GM. Probably top5. AR is top1.

TT is absolutely top 5. He has spawned more successful GM's then anyone else in the NFL.

[Carolina_Packer]

JH, nobody wants to see TT sign someone like a Jairus Byrd to stupid guaranteed money and get hamstrung by his injuries or pedestrian play. On the opposite side, all of your depth does not have to be college free agents. There are free agents that a GM can sprinkle on to their roster that will provide veteran depth and not a ton of guaranteed money. I think some fans would just like our GM to consider more players like this. They may not be an all-pro because those guys are getting a lot of guaranteed money, but they aren't necessarily green horns either. I do think it makes a difference when you sign a guy like that too.

I think there is a camp of people who appreciate what TT does and how he thinks ahead in terms of having a long-game for the salary cap and who the team wants to retain and how they will fit under the cap down the road. I'm sure there are a lot of moving pieces there. However, what we are learning from Jared Cook is that he can still play and the team has gotten a nice look at him. I think there may be other under-valued gems like this that can help in the short-term while having a chance to prove a more long-term worth to the team. If that takes a roster spot from a college free agent, well, a number of them churn and burn the bottom of the roster every year anyway.