FYI. I will talk to you there. Start a thread.Originally Posted by pbmax
FYI. I will talk to you there. Start a thread.
"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck
I spend enough time on here as it is.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
He is largely right. In nearly every police shooting I can tell you what the perp did wrong. Problem is that in several police shootings I can point out what the officer did wrong also. If you carry a gun you have a certain responsibility to know how to engage an officer if you have to interact. I'm not blind though. Law enforcement training is basically para military now. Kids come out with a soldiers mentality. They mentally engage citizens with the approach of "I'm the law and you must obey even the dumbest thing I say". And I've run into some pretty unreasonable officers in my day. Pricks with a badge applies. I would love to see POST training get an overhaul with respect being infused in there somewhere. I would also like to see some dumb ass guy in Minnesota with a gun inform the officer that he is carrying at some point BEFORE he reaches for his wallet. Arms outside the window (unlock your car door first). Inform the officer. If he asks you to get out of the car you open the door with the outside handle. Its not rocket science. The NRA runs hundreds, likely thousands, of classes a year. If you want to carry a gun, take the class.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
Sad state of GB when this thread still lives.
Kaperprick is a pain in the ass. He needs the right system to do well in. He can't make a lot of the throws many systems require. Maybe it's Seattle is Russ gets hurt. Reverse to Pain the Ass note; not worth bringing in as a backup
When a QB goes down hurt or a team becomes desperate he'll get his shot.
He decided to be the pain in the ass. I'd let the hereroid stay home.
LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?
He is a piece of crys I find on my shoe. He is ignorant and undeserving of a chance to play for millions. I will boycott ANY game he is in, sidelines or playing. He has missed me off and I will use my free choice and my money to support my views not this cop hating shit bag.
Swede: My expertise in this area is extensive. The essential difference between a "battleship" and an "aircraft carrier" is that an aircraft carrier requires five direct hits to sink, but it takes only four direct hits to sink a battleship.
Bobble, you presume to know a lot of the details of what happened. What if he did tell the cop he had a gun before reaching for his wallet? What if the cop never asked him to step out of the car? What if he was surprised at getting pulled over and adrenaline got in the way of calm, cool reflecting before acting? What if he was stoned to the bejesus belt?
Interesting that you refer to victims of police shootings collectively as "perps."
Watch the dashcam video. Its been released. And all these details have been out for quite awhile. As for the rest...again, that is why you take the class and go over the proper steps. So that when it happens you don't make big mistakes. Don't misunderstand me though. That cop was WAY too quick to fire shots. The man just politely said "officer, I have to inform you I have a concealed weapon on me" Not the action of a man about to shoot you. Also he had kids in the car. How about a well trained officer retreats to behind the car...a position that someone in a drivers seat can't really shoot at you. And then tell him to exit the vehicle, hands in sight. Again, big mistakes on both parts. That officer should never carry a gun again.
As for me referring to them as perps, its not that interesting at all. Its not even relevant to the post other than what you want to divine across the internet of what you think you know about me. They are many things, I chose a term. Many are perps. Some are victims. Many are simply people who are on the wrong side of an unfortunate incident. I used the term "perp" because in 95%+ of police shootings the person who gets shot is in fact a perp. I guess I could have gone all PC and used the term to describe the other 5% but that would just be stupid.
Don't be blinded by your biased conclusions about me. You read a post by me where I say "Hillary is a crook, but Trump is an ass" and all you read is "Hillary is a crook". It shows YOUR bias, not mine.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
. double post
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
It's all on video, I'm not sure why the need to speculate. Castille was calm and polite and explained that he had a firearm and he was not reaching for it. If you watch the video and can't determine that it was a heinous overreaction by the cop, you can't be helped. Shooting someone should be a last resort. There truly was no reason to assume the cop was in immediate danger. It's not logical that a guy would tell a cop he has a firearm, tell him multiple times that he was not reaching for it, just to trick the cop and shoot him while in the car with his girlfriend and 3 year old child. Cop should have absolutely gotten manslaughter.
Partly agree except for one thing. He informs the officer he is packing and almost immediately reaches for his wallet. He never offers his hands when he says it. Stupid. I can agree 100% that the officer way over reacted. The problem is that we can't see inside the car and again, Castille NEVER offered his hands out the window which is what EVERY instructor tells you to do when stopped while packing. Big mistakes on both ends. 2nd degree manslaughter....probably, but I didn't see the entire trial. To say there was NO reason to assume the cop was in immediate danger is an overstatement as well. Again, you can't see inside the car. You can't see Castille's hands. But we KNOW he had a gun.
And just like Hoosier, you saying "you can't be helped" is reading an awful lot into what I DIDN'T type. I clearly criticized law enforcement and their over reactions in that post. But you only read what you wanted to read so you could criticize me for not being as smart as you. Castille fucked up big time by waiting that long to inform the officer he was packing. That was my point. I never said the officer didn't over react. You read that into my post based on YOUR preconceived bias, not mine.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
My comments weren't specifically addressing your points or your bias only. Sorry if that was confusing. I will point out that Castilles mistakes were minimal compared to officers. I just can't figure out how a jury could conclude that the officer thought his life was in danger after watching the video. Observe everyone else in the videos demeanor, Castille and his family and even the other officer. Cops basically have a free pass to kill first and ask questions later. And that's just not right.
Bill Cosby had a hung jury. Literally anything is possible.
I can disagree about being pulled over for the tail light. I have been pulled over for that. Its their job. The rest has to do with the way they train cops. Some intelligent people can overcome the "us vs. them" training. Consider every citizen a possible murderer. Be 100% vigilant all the time. They call the training para military, but the problem is that officers aren't at war, they are dealing with citizens.
It does NOT equal manslaughter though. Police are put in these situation. Given society the way its been an office has EVERY reason to be afraid for his life in ANY traffic stop. Thats why they can't be charged with manslaughter (realistically) but only reckless homicide as long as it was in the line of duty. First mistake the DA made was overcharging and not offering the alternative.
There is a line between where you are and where their training lies. Be vigilant, but use your damn noodle.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
You began by focusing on what you surmise where the errors committed by the victim, and you refer to him as a perpetrator. It is not a stretch of the imagination to conclude that you hold Castille primarily responsible for his own fate.
I said:
"He is largely right. In nearly every police shooting I can tell you what the perp did wrong. Problem is that in several police shootings I can point out what the officer did wrong also."
And I referred to Castille as a dumb ass, not a perp. Perp was the general term I used for people shot by cops. I specifically didn't refer to him as a perp because he wasn't one.
I focused on this one instance because Castille did about everything wrong you could do. I still think the officer over reacted...a lot. But I would like to have been on the jury to see everything. I'm not sure I would have convicted him, but I might have.
I also focused on him because it was the case that hit the news most recently, and I would like to raise awareness about how NOT to get shot if you are pulled over while carrying. I try to be a very responsible gun owner. Everyone should.
Now, if you want me to take the side of an officer I can. In milwaukee a PERP throws a gun as he is shot in the bicep. 1.69 seconds later he is shot in the chest and killed. The DA charged the officer with 1st degree reckless homicide. Holy shit, who would ever want to be a cop...not me.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
What percent of police interactions do you guys follow. People argue from these highly charged ideologically motivated cases to generalities about police encounters. I notice that Dash cam video of successful and helpful police interactions are underepresented on US TV. Or the cases where cops are getting assaulted.
Doesn't mean this wasn't a bad encounter and that the cop needs to go (he has been or will be fired). Just because he may be a marginal cop doesn't mean that he should be punished to the level of manslaughter.
This stuff is all split second and many times the opposite happens where cops get drawn on even while they are talking and police instructuons are seemingly being followed
When a cop stops someone he has to treat him like a perp and cops do pay attention to demography. Men are vastly more likely to draw a gun on a cop than women for example.
Again the problem for Kap is he is taking the most extreme stance. All cops are bad, embracing BLM racism, etcetc. because there's no moderating tone there he will suffer.
And I agree Kap' s stance is too extreme.
Having a tail light out while being a black man shouldn't give the cops the right to assume he is likely a violent perpetrator. I mean seriously how often has a man been pulled over for a traffic violation ONLY, and ended up murdering the cop? Let alone after calmly and politely telling the officer he had a legal firearm and with his family in the car. Cops have plenty of respectable interactions in similar situations, without being the agitator, aggressor, and unloading seven rounds into another human. The cop had zero reason to be afraid for his life, so non premeditated murder that isn't self-defense = manslaughter.
I could be mistaken, but I think lethal force should be reviewed much more rigorously than routine police interactions. Which is not to say those routine actions shouldn't be reviewed. But the stakes involved are far higher when guns are drawn.
I reject the argument that this represents a blanket condemnation of all police. The second officer on the scene didn't lose his mind. But there are those who should not be on the force while armed. And this guy should not get a similar job with another department after this incident. His training might have been lax, his skills might be below par, or he may not deal with stressful situations well.
But it should not take a death to make the HR judgement that he is not fit to be an armed police officer.
Arguing the Kaepernick is being emotional or over the top is simply avoiding the main question by concentrating on who is reacting the right way. The right thing to do is to make sure this person, and others like him who cause deaths needlessly, do not work at this same position again. Then you update the training for all departments to prevent it (and weed people out) before more deaths occur.
It doesn't matter if he shot Castile, the Pope, my grandmother or my dog, he doesn't belong in uniform carrying a gun if this is how he handles himself. Did his training fail him? Maybe, but we will never know* because he will be brushed off the front page and the odds are that nothing will change.
*If anyone discovers a piece describing what might have gone into this from a training or personal perspective, post a link.
Last edited by pbmax; 06-23-2017 at 01:46 PM.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Good post except for your very first point. If this officer had had his routine interactions reviewed much more vigorously by his superiors someone might have figured out he doesn't handle things well long before someone died. OR maybe not. What makes it so tough to convict a cop is that he is in these situations all the time. He might get 999 of them right, but than that one night his eyes and brain missed a beat and someone bringing his hands up into sight appears to be someone coming up with a weapon and in that instance you make a lethal error. Murder? Manslaughter? If we hold the police to such a standard that their one mistake lands them in prison, no one ever wants to be a cop.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
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