Kaepernick unemployment

[mraynrand]

I could be mistaken, but I think lethal force should be reviewed much more rigorously than routine police interactions. Which is not to say those routine actions shouldn't be reviewed. But the stakes involved are far higher when guns are drawn.

I reject the argument that this represents a blanket condemnation of all police. The second officer on the scene didn't lose his mind. But there are those who should not be on the force while armed. And this guy should not get a similar job with another department after this incident. His training might have been lax, his skills might be below par, or he may not deal with stressful situations well.

But it should not take a death to make the HR judgement that he is not fit to be an armed police officer.

Arguing the Kaepernick is being emotional or over the top is simply avoiding the main question by concentrating on who is reacting the right way. The right thing to do is to make sure this person, and others like him who cause deaths needlessly, do not work at this same position again. Then you update the training for all departments to prevent it (and weed people out) before more deaths occur.

It doesn't matter if he shot Castile, the Pope, my grandmother or my dog, he doesn't belong in uniform carrying a gun if this is how he handles himself. Did his training fail him? Maybe, but we will never know* because he will be brushed off the front page and the odds are that nothing will change.

*If anyone discovers a piece describing what might have gone into this from a training or personal perspective, post a link.

It seems to me you are confusing points. First is Kap: is his view legitimate or not? I argue it is not because it is a blanket treatment of cops as bad. This is not shocking; he is not alone in this view - saw very similar views just today in my liberal community arguing that police should not be called for altercations because they just shoot all blacks dead. That's what they do because they are racists. So is his reaction appropriate? Is this general reaction to police appropriate? Is Kap reacting in the right way? Well, considering people in the NFL want nothing to do with him suggests that he's reacting in an inflammatory way. Kap's reaction is the main issue, because as I said, police encounters happen by the hundreds of thousands and Kap is making like these highly charged and publicized cases that show police in a bad light are the norm, and are certainly due to the pervasive racism of police. A lot of people don't agree with him, even those who strongly believe there is a problem.

Second is whether the cop is a murderer or manslaughter. Possibly, but the jury didn't agree. More likely, as you point out, he's a poor police officer, who doesn't have a good sense of whether a situation is escalating to a confrontation with a 'suspect' or is just a situation with a guy who is high and impaired, has a gun, but is not a threat. The police force will determine that. I hope they have enough motivation to remove a bad officer over protecting 'one of their own.' If scrutiny could do anything it might make police more carful about techniques, training and evaluation. But again, there will be mistakes and difficult encounters even with highly trained and decent officers. The actual result of much of the recent scrutiny has been for police to withdraw from positive policing in communities, and in many cases, it's led to more crime.

If the press decides to continue their protocol of advancing the narrative that both incites and confirms anti-police bias, you'll continue to see the very rare cases endlessly running on video loops, so long as they can get the video. There are plenty of resources to find out the exact level of police bias but I suspect our essentially leftwing media and entertainment industries will continue to sell the story of rampant institutional police hatred of, bigotry towards, and indiscriminate slaughter of racial minorities. It looks like for now, the NFL and fans aren't buying this extreme view. If Kap wants a job, he's going to have to moderate his tone or vastly improve his game to become indispensable.

[hoosier]

Did his training fail him? Maybe, but we will never know* because he will be brushed off the front page and the odds are that nothing will change.

*If anyone discovers a piece describing what might have gone into this from a training or personal perspective, post a link.

There were a couple of articles in the NYT and WP shortly after that tried to get into the question of police training in whatever the suburb is called (St Anthony? Isn't Minneapolis supposed to leave the Catholic names on the other side of the river?). As Rand will surely point out, they come from the leftie mainstream media so take them with however much salt you please. The Times article suggests that some of the cop's recent training may have included some tactical sessions based on a warrior outlook. The WaPo article, misleadingly titled, is purely anecdotal (anecdote of one person) and speculative. So it's something but not enough to build a case around.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/u...uestioned.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.81bf0f6fe41a

[mraynrand]

The Times article suggests that some of the cop's recent training may have included some tactical sessions based on a warrior outlook.

I've heard the same thing from some southside cops. That, plus demographic prejudice can lead to some cops having hair triggers. It's a messy world. I wish I had a good answer how to de-escalate the rhetoric and the police encounters. Believe it or not, most cops don't want to shoot someone. But if they don't have the experience and wisdom to handle what seem to be tense but non-life threatening situations, they shouldn't be out there. The 'us or them' rhetoric doesn't seem to be helping.

[hoosier]

I've heard the same thing from some southside cops. That, plus demographic prejudice can lead to some cops having hair triggers. It's a messy world. I wish I had a good answer how to de-escalate the rhetoric and the police encounters. Believe it or not, most cops don't want to shoot someone. But if they don't have the experience and wisdom to handle what seem to be tense but non-life threatening situations, they shouldn't be out there. The 'us or them' rhetoric doesn't seem to be helping.

I don't doubt that, as people, most cops don't want ever to be in the position of pulling the trigger and that many of those who do will be haunted or destroyed by the experience. But the culture and the training seem to be more powerful than the individual's conscience. David Couper, who became chief of the Madison PD in the midst of the student riots in the early 70s, had a real talent for calming heated situations. His take on current the current situation is that dialogue between police and community is impeded by cultural chasm. Police don't see themselves as public servants and don't want to listen to criticism or accept direction from the community because the community has never been in their shoes. He has some fairly specific recommendations for improving police-community relations in his book Arrested Development.

[Guiness]

holy fucking take it to FYI folks

[mraynrand]

I don't doubt that, as people, most cops don't want ever to be in the position of pulling the trigger and that many of those who do will be haunted or destroyed by the experience. But the culture and the training seem to be more powerful than the individual's conscience. David Couper, who became chief of the Madison PD in the midst of the student riots in the early 70s, had a real talent for calming heated situations. His take on current the current situation is that dialogue between police and community is impeded by cultural chasm. Police don't see themselves as public servants and don't want to listen to criticism or accept direction from the community because the community has never been in their shoes. He has some fairly specific recommendations for improving police-community relations in his book Arrested Development.

Your language is nicer than Kap and friends, but you too see the 'cultural chasm' as being entirely the fault of the police. What is the 'cultural chasm?' Who caused it? Who is using it as a political weapon? It may surprise you that most people in 'culturally chasmed' communities, while distrusting the police, still depend on them for some level of safety. People who hate the police still seem to call 911 when a victim of the cultural chasm inflicts physical rearrangement on them or appropriates objects from them.

[hoosier]

Bobble, I'm inclined to agree that a large part of the problem is that police are trained to see themselves as warriors. Community policing and deescalation need to be emphasized more. That's a failure in leadership and education, but I suspect there is also a deeper societal issue here because ultimately police forces are not purely autonomous institutions, they are instruments that serve power interests.

You seem to be contradicting yourself about what makes it hard to convict cops. Or maybe not, maybe the average jurist really does end up concluding that they're not in a position to second guess the people who are out in the streets. If that is the case then they should never have been chosen as jurists.

[bobblehead]

Bobble, I'm inclined to agree that a large part of the problem is that police are trained to see themselves as warriors. Community policing and deescalation need to be emphasized more. That's a failure in leadership and education, but I suspect there is also a deeper societal issue here because ultimately police forces are not purely autonomous institutions, they are instruments that serve power interests.

You seem to be contradicting yourself about what makes it hard to convict cops. Or maybe not, maybe the average jurist really does end up concluding that they're not in a position to second guess the people who are out in the streets. If that is the case then they should never have been chosen as jurists.

I am contradicting myself. (in your eyes). Its a very difficult issue that everyone wants to paint as black and white.

Black: Cops kill people for no reason!

White: Cops are heroes who can never do wrong!

Reality: Cops are people. Some good, some bad. Mistakes happen, some egregious that shouldn't, some that are understandable.

But I don't think I am contradicting myself because In my eyes I have been arguing both sides from the start.

[mraynrand]

Police are held to a higher standard

[Rutnstrut]

Bottom line imo. Kap is a POS that isn't really that into football.

[Guiness]

Bottom line imo. Kap is a POS that isn't really that into football.

Aw damn, I almost have to agree with The Rut. IMO Kap is not trying very hard to play football, he isn't (visibly to the public) working very hard at getting a job; not giving interviews saying he wants to play, talking about his SB experience, etc, or anything else that would put pressure on the league to take him seriously.

[mraynrand]

I farted into a cup and it sounded funny.

[Fritz]

I farted into a cup and it sounded funny.

If you fart into your cupped hand it sounds like a duck.

[hoosier]

If you fart into your cupped hand it sounds like a duck.

Please take that to the augmentation thread in the RR where it belongs.

[Zool]

I wonder if he hadn't kneeled during the national anthem, would his tweets be this heavily scrutinized?

[mraynrand]

I wonder if he hadn't kneeled during the national anthem, would his tweets be this heavily scrutinized?

[Zool]

[smuggler]

People who lie down in front of traffic get run over and have been paid significantly less than Kaep. They are contributing to society about as much as each other (by that I mean not much in truth), so I don't have much simpathy for Kaep. He's still healthy and wealthy.