Ahman Ah-rested

[3irty1]

There is a cultural component to this. About 100% of my wife's students experience the level of corporal punishment our great grandfathers probably experienced. When its Adrian Peterson or Ahman Green I have a hard time clutching my pearls. The truth is not beating your kids (which I think is excellent practice for the record) is like a generation old and not everybody watches enough Dateline to get the memo. Even Tanahasi Coates writes about how his dad was noble enough to beat him "so the cops wouldn't" or some such. We see a mother in Baltimore pull her kid out of a riot while hitting him in the face and she's somehow #motheroftheyear. Seems to me there are two sets of rules here and one set of laws.

[pbmax]

There is a cultural component to this. About 100% of my wife's students experience the level of corporal punishment our great grandfathers probably experienced. When its Adrian Peterson or Ahman Green I have a hard time clutching my pearls. The truth is not beating your kids (which I think is excellent practice for the record) is like a generation old and not everybody watches enough Dateline to get the memo. Even Tanahasi Coates writes about how his dad was noble enough to beat him "so the cops wouldn't" or some such. We see a mother in Baltimore pull her kid out of a riot while hitting him in the face and she's somehow #motheroftheyear. Seems to me there are two sets of rules here and one set of laws.

Beating your children to avoid other, possibly worse beatings, might seem to be necessary, but its not desirable.

Same goes for spanking. If you can get the behavior change without the violence (I disagree with Joe that hitting is not violence, its message is pain, fear and/or humiliation no matter the velocity or frequency) it would be best to avoid it.

[3irty1]

Beating your children to avoid other, possibly worse beatings, might seem to be necessary, but its not desirable.

Same goes for spanking. If you can get the behavior change without the violence (I disagree with Joe that hitting is not violence, its message is pain, fear and/or humiliation no matter the velocity or frequency) it would be best to avoid it.

I agree completely that corporal punishment is not the best parenting technique. I'm making excuses because what Green did might not have been abuse a generation or two ago depending on degree. Furthermore its likely that most other people in his life were raised this way. You know these days you have to be culturally sensitive or you're a racist.

[call_me_ishmael]

No, my approach would be using other forms of discipline. There are plenty of them. Sorry, there is nothing cool, manly, or responsible about using size and strength to discipline a child. What lesson does that teach them? That's beating people and using their size/strength over them is right? And what happens when a young man tries to apply the same concepts they learned from their folks to a young woman?

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post? Your lack of intelligence is showing.

[Vincenzo]

No, my approach would be using other forms of discipline. There are plenty of them. Sorry, there is nothing cool, manly, or responsible about using size and strength to discipline a child. What lesson does that teach them? That's beating people and using their size/strength over them is right? And what happens when a young man tries to apply the same concepts they learned from their folks to a young woman?

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post? Your lack of intelligence is showing.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with a lack of intelligence. Rather, more to do with the difficulty with the subject of disciplining.
Family matters often escalate which can end up in regretful endings.

[falco]

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post?Your lack of intelligence is showing.

Um... when has he shown anything but???

[call_me_ishmael]

I would just ask this question: When a situation arises that results in violence, have you ever exited the situation with more respect for the other person as a whole? I know that I have not. Respect is key IMO.

[mraynrand]

I would just ask this question: When a situation arises that results in violence, have you ever exited the situation with more respect for the other person as a whole? I know that I have not. Respect is key IMO.

I had a lot of respect for Steven Seagal in "Hard to Kill"

[MadtownPacker]

I would just ask this question: When a situation arises that results in violence, have you ever exited the situation with more respect for the other person as a whole? I know that I have not. Respect is key IMO.

Respect? Re-fucking-spect you say? Didn't you personal attack skinbasket's family? Quit acting all indignant cuz you are really just ignant. Fake ass act that no one is buying or even willing to rent.

[mraynrand]

[hoosier]

I think the most likely scenario is the girl was refusing to do what she was supposed to do as a condition of her living in the house, Ahman started nagging her, and the girl got sassy and he finally snapped on her. Hitting a child because they pushed your buttons is not disciplining the child under any definition. It is simply losing control.

[3irty1]

I think the most likely scenario is the girl was refusing to do what she was supposed to do as a condition of her living in the house, Ahman started nagging her, and the girl got sassy and he finally snapped on her. Hitting a child because they pushed your buttons is not disciplining the child under any definition. It is simply losing control.

She was punished for being disobedient, not just because he was an angry maniac lashing out blindly. We wouldn't expect him to fly off the handle and smack his kid if the Packers lost for instance. Discipline and losing control are not mutually exclusive although I agree that they definitely should be. I doubt much corporal punishment is administered by cool-headed parents.

[hoosier]

She was punished for being disobedient, not just because he was an angry maniac lashing out blindly. We wouldn't expect him to fly off the handle and smack his kid if the Packers lost for instance. Discipline and losing control are not mutually exclusive although I agree that they definitely should be. I doubt much corporal punishment is administered by cool-headed parents.

An angry maniac thrashing around blindly is not quite what I had in mind. The hypothetical scenario I was envisioning is someone who has been seething quietly for a while and, when the kid finally says something insulting about his wife (I'm assuming they're married; she is not the daughter's biological mother), he gives her a hard backhand, breaking her glasses and bruising the side of her face. That isn't discipline.

[3irty1]

An angry maniac thrashing around blindly is not quite what I had in mind. The hypothetical scenario I was envisioning is someone who has been seething quietly for a while and, when the kid finally says something insulting about his wife (I'm assuming they're married; she is not the daughter's biological mother), he gives her a hard backhand, breaking her glasses and bruising the side of her face. That isn't discipline.

Why exactly? Is he not training her to obey a code of behavior? Again, its obviously bad practice... but I don't see how its not discipline. It seems exactly like discipline of the old school variety.

[hoosier]

Why exactly? Is he not training her to obey a code of behavior? Again, its obviously bad practice... but I don't see how its not discipline. It seems exactly like discipline of the old school variety.

Well, let's see, what exactly would that kind of reaction teach a child? To do the dishes when told? That her views and needs are unimportant in comparison to those of others? To fear her father because he's likely to hurt her if she makes him angry?

I say hitting a child in anger is not discipline because it sets a problematic example, and because the child is likely to be responding to anger and fear over anything else. Generally speaking humans don't learn well in those situations.

[mraynrand]

I think the most likely scenario is the girl was refusing to do what she was supposed to do as a condition of her living in the house, Ahman started nagging her, and the girl got sassy and he finally snapped on her. Hitting a child because they pushed your buttons is not disciplining the child under any definition. It is simply losing control.

Fact check: probably true. Wise.

[hoosier]

I understand your point, but I don't think the lesson can ever be completely clear when physical harm or the threat of harm is involved. Let's assume you're right, and the child learns that when she doesn't listen to Dad then bad things happen. How does that lesson translate into the rest of her life? Does she internalize responsibility for taking care of where she lives? Does she learn to obey the voice of authority simply because it is the authority? Does she simply internalize that she should do what Dad says because he says? I spent some time in a school system in another country where corporal punishment was quite common and often very brutal. I would say that overall the children there were slightly better behaved than their American peers (only slightly) and that they were considerably less adept at thinking for themselves. Their idea of learning was listening to what the teacher told them and memorizing it. That idea stays with many of them throughout their entire education. The change in parenting and discipline culture is new, I agree, and it's easy to assume that if things were done a certain way for a very long time then the results must not be all that bad. Maybe for the average kid they are not, because most kids have supportive, loving families or are simply a lot more resilient than we often give them credit for being.

[pbmax]

The kind of negative reaction you impart is very important.

To expect physical assault is simply to fear the abuse again. Its a pretty bad feedback loop to reinforce.

There are a lot of negative outcomes that do not involve a violent act. Refusing to do the dishes or mouthing off can limit your access to that allowance, the car, time away from the home, internet, phone, other favors, trips to see family, etc.

[Joemailman]

The number of responses to this thread has reminded me of one thing:

There is way too much time between minicamp and training camp.

[pbmax]

The number of responses to this thread has reminded me of one thing:

There is way too much time between minicamp and training camp.

A: Spring Football League. Now.