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Thread: 4th Down Ezekiel Elliot Reach Overturn

  1. #21
    Jumbo Rat HOFer
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    I know FIFA is testing sensors inside a soccer ball to make sure the ball has crossed the line on goals.
    But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.

    -Tim Harmston

  2. #22
    Moose Rat HOFer woodbuck27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    He clearly got the 1st down... get over yourselves.
    After the dust settled I thought so.
    ** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderDan View Post
    I know FIFA is testing sensors inside a soccer ball to make sure the ball has crossed the line on goals.
    We must not allow a ball sensor gap!!


    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  4. #24
    Barbershop Rat HOFer Pugger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smuggler View Post
    He pulled the ball back of his own volition. Should not have been a first. If the Packers had forced the ball back it would have been the right call. But his forward progress was ruled stopped on the field, which means the spot was a judgment call and therefore not subject to review.

    In short, the refs were wrong thrice on the same play.
    These zebras weren't the best the league has to offer...

  5. #25
    Senior Rat HOFer beveaux1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugger View Post
    These zebras weren't the best the league has to offer...
    Boy, is this true.

  6. #26
    Senior Rat HOFer Maxie the Taxi's Avatar
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    What would have happened if one of our guys would have slapped the ball out of Elliott's hand when he reached it forward? It looked to me like Brice was in a position to do so but chose to push against the pile instead. Maybe Brice didn't see the ball quick enough, or maybe he didn't think quick enough. I think they would have had to call it a fumble.
    One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
    John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

  7. #27
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi View Post
    What would have happened if one of our guys would have slapped the ball out of Elliott's hand when he reached it forward? It looked to me like Brice was in a position to do so but chose to push against the pile instead. Maybe Brice didn't see the ball quick enough, or maybe he didn't think quick enough. I think they would have had to call it a fumble.
    It's a dead ball once forward progress has been ruled. Forward progress requires the player to be held and restrained so motion is stopped. Once motion is ruled stopped, the ball is spotted where it was when forward progress was called, which the refs ruled (on review) was the extended reach (correct). If Beasly had been contacted when he first caught the pass on the previous play, he would have made the first down with forward progress. So the ball would have had to have been knocked out before the refs ruled forward progress stopped, just before the whistle.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  8. #28
    Oracle Rat HOFer Cheesehead Craig's Avatar
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    He got the first, Packers won anyways. No biggie.
    All hail the Ruler of the Meadow!

  9. #29
    Senior Rat HOFer Maxie the Taxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mraynrand View Post
    It's a dead ball once forward progress has been ruled. Forward progress requires the player to be held and restrained so motion is stopped. Once motion is ruled stopped, the ball is spotted where it was when forward progress was called, which the refs ruled (on review) was the extended reach (correct). If Beasly had been contacted when he first caught the pass on the previous play, he would have made the first down with forward progress. So the ball would have had to have been knocked out before the refs ruled forward progress stopped, just before the whistle.
    Understood. The question then becomes, when did the refs blow the whistle?

    If we're gonna use overhead cams to review plays, maybe we ought to have enhanced sound in the replays the refs review.
    One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
    John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

  10. #30
    Fried Rat HOFer KYPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi View Post
    What would have happened if one of our guys would have slapped the ball out of Elliott's hand when he reached it forward? It looked to me like Brice was in a position to do so but chose to push against the pile instead. Maybe Brice didn't see the ball quick enough, or maybe he didn't think quick enough. I think they would have had to call it a fumble.
    Maybe he could've swatted it, but that's like catching a lizard by his tongue.

    On goal line and short yardage, you've gotta commit yourself. Brice was all bowed up to make a form tackle at the line. He did what he could.

    It's getting to the point where I hate close plays that are reviewed. About the review, where was Zeke's knees in all of this? Were they on the pile or down in other words?

  11. #31
    Senior Rat HOFer Maxie the Taxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYPack View Post
    Maybe he could've swatted it, but that's like catching a lizard by his tongue.

    On goal line and short yardage, you've gotta commit yourself. Brice was all bowed up to make a form tackle at the line. He did what he could.

    It's getting to the point where I hate close plays that are reviewed. About the review, where was Zeke's knees in all of this? Were they on the pile or down in other words?
    It looked to me that Zeke was on top of the pile, i.e., not down, which is what makes the play iffy. As for me, I wish they'd get rid of the whole process of challenges and replays. Let the refs call them as they see them and move on. For every replay that rectify's a mistaken call, there is one that ends up in la la land causing controversy. Not to mention the irritating delays. I'm too old to sit through delays. lol
    One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
    John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by KYPack View Post
    Maybe he could've swatted it, but that's like catching a lizard by his tongue.

    On goal line and short yardage, you've gotta commit yourself. Brice was all bowed up to make a form tackle at the line. He did what he could.

    It's getting to the point where I hate close plays that are reviewed. About the review, where was Zeke's knees in all of this? Were they on the pile or down in other words?
    If Martinez kept his head up for another half second, he would have seen the stretch and been able to hit the ball. Which might have been good or bad, because if Dak gets it and there is a pile, he might have a lot of room to run on the outside.
    Last edited by pbmax; 10-09-2017 at 09:11 AM.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  13. #33


    The dummies in this thread who are so sure that the ball was over the first down line don't realize how easily your brain can be fooled by perspective tricks. That sky cam was not directly over the line-to-gain. Your brain really doesn't have enough information to judge how many feet off the line the camera is placed. That 2-D image doesn't tell you how high off the ground the ball is. There is NO WAY you have enough information to solve the trianglization problem and judge how far up the field the ball is. You simply see a ball on your 2D picture past the line, and you declare it a certain first down. #SAD

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby View Post


    The dummies in this thread who are so sure that the ball was over the first down line don't realize how easily your brain can be fooled by perspective tricks. That sky cam was not directly over the line-to-gain. Your brain really doesn't have enough information to judge how many feet off the line the camera is placed. That 2-D image doesn't tell you how high off the ground the ball is. There is NO WAY you have enough information to solve the trianglization problem and judge how far up the field the ball is. You simply see a ball on your 2D picture past the line, and you declare it a certain first down. #SAD
    Every replay but Pylon Cam has this problem.

    And you could solve for Elliot's height off the ground with another shot.
    Last edited by pbmax; 10-09-2017 at 09:49 AM.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  15. #35
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby View Post


    The dummies in this thread who are so sure that the ball was over the first down line don't realize how easily your brain can be fooled by perspective tricks. That sky cam was not directly over the line-to-gain. Your brain really doesn't have enough information to judge how many feet off the line the camera is placed. That 2-D image doesn't tell you how high off the ground the ball is. There is NO WAY you have enough information to solve the trianglization problem and judge how far up the field the ball is. You simply see a ball on your 2D picture past the line, and you declare it a certain first down. #SAD
    when you have the impedance tomographic game recording, let us know.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    Every replay but Pylon Cam has this problem.
    True enough. But this was a particularly deceptive view. A replay is especially bad at showing ball position, so clear evidence is needed to overturn.

  17. #37
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby View Post
    True enough. But this was a particularly deceptive view. A replay is especially bad at showing ball position, so clear evidence is needed to overturn.
    there was sufficient visual evidence that the initial spot was wrong. They re-spotted as best they could. It's possible they were off. Was the roof open? If so, perhaps parallax imaging from several satellites could resolve the issue. If not, damn those crafty Cowboys.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  18. #38
    Sugadaddy Rat HOFer Zool's Avatar
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    I don't care at all about the position of the ball when he reached. I care about when the play was called dead and the location of the ball at that time. Was forward progress called exactly when his arm reached out the farthest? Was it 2 seconds before? Did they even call forward progress stopped? The position of the ball of secondary to the actual end of the play.
    Quote Originally Posted by 3irty1 View Post
    This is museum quality stupidity.

  19. #39
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zool View Post
    I don't care at all about the position of the ball when he reached. I care about when the play was called dead and the location of the ball at that time. Was forward progress called exactly when his arm reached out the farthest? Was it 2 seconds before? Did they even call forward progress stopped? The position of the ball of secondary to the actual end of the play.
    But that's how forward progress works as I understand it - they call a play dead and the progress is to the farthest forward position of the ball after contact. The ball extension had to be after contact and before the play was called dead however. I think they got it right (with the possible exception of the placement of the ball - still waiting on Harlan's satellite parallax or tomography reconstructions)
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  20. #40
    I think forward progress often is enforced in a goofy way. The pass receiver can be going backwards due to his own momentum, or a runner may be dancing backwards trying to break open, and they give a generous spot. Of course forward progress makes sense when the defense is entirely responsible for driving the ball carrier backwards; otherwise they'd carry the dude into his endzone every play for a safety. Say, now that could be more fun.

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