More Banjo: Week 9 vs. Detroit

[Harlan Huckleby]

They initially had some running success against New Orleans. However, it becomes harder to run the ball when the opposing defense isn't worried about you throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield.

Agreed.
My mind went kind of numb last night. Play calling seemed to be the least of their problems. Hundley just can't throw accurately on medium or long passes, so I didn't really expect anything to work.
My talk of replacing Hundley with Lil Joe Callahan has been a joke. But maybe it isn't terrible idea.

[woodbuck27]

TEs had zero catches. Didn't Rick Rod play with Hundley in preseason and have some success?

Lenny Pipkins got the slot job after Randall went out. Randall did come back in. Rollins nowhere to be seen. Hawkins was outside when King got evaluated. King returned.

TE Richard Rodgers made a catch on a pass left for 5 yards.

TE Lance Kendricks made 2 Receptions for 32 Yards and a long of 21 Yards.

[Smidgeon]

I really do think that Hundley has a problem avoiding the rush while keeping his eyes downfield. Arod is a master of this. Maybe Hundley will improve with experience. But right now, he's still a mess. How many times last night did Hundley scramble to buy time only to unload the ball to a receiver at or behind the line of scrimmage? Did Cobb, Nelson and Adams stop moving? Or was Hundley just unable to find them? I think it was the latter. Some QB's have a knack for it (Russell Wilson, Arod); some don't.

It's too bad we lost Taysom Hill. That kid had the knack. So does Callahan. Hundley not so much. And with our O-line, the QB extending plays and throwing downfield is a big part of our game.

Hundley is Packer people, a real quality lad. I think this plays a part in Stubby and company desperately wanting him to succeed.

Hundley had more knack than either Callahan or Hill in the preseason two years ago. The truth is you don't know this and you can't know this until they're running against the starters in a regular season game.

This game is tough, and sure there are some gaps and improvements that need to be made. But this offense was a step up versus the one against the Saints (except for Aaron Jones). It isn't a tire fire. Just a lot of overreactions. The D...now that's another story.

[Smidgeon]

Not that Green Bay has ever been accused of being a running team under McCarthy, but I was wondering if they would try and establish the run more once Hundley became the starter. Use the run to setup play action and then take your chances down the field on play action. Nope. This isn't second-guessing, just wondering out loud. I wonder if McCarthy ever thought about taking pressure off of Hundley by becoming more of a run first team when A-Rod went down. If you don't really run the ball, even with Hundley in there, aren't you limiting your offense and asking Hundley to replicate A-Rod's efforts to some extent? The approach seems a bit forced or hard-headed.

I bet it was one of the first things that crossed his mind. The last time Rodgers went down, they rode Eddie Lacy to the last game of the season. This year, they have another hot hand. Except he couldn't do anything against a stacked box in this game.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Hundley had more knack than either Callahan or Hill in the preseason two years ago. The truth is you don't know this and you can't know this until they're running against the starters in a regular season game.

This game is tough, and sure there are some gaps and improvements that need to be made. But this offense was a step up versus the one against the Saints (except for Aaron Jones). It isn't a tire fire. Just a lot of overreactions. The D...now that's another story.

Maybe I'm wrong about Callahan and Hill, but not about Hundley. Not from what I saw the last two weeks. And yeah, considering it was a home game after a bye week against Detroit, it's pretty much a tire fire.

[Smidgeon]

I watched the game late last night.
My thoughts on the game:

1. It looked like Jones got away with a minor OPI on Detroit's first TD.
2. On the second punt, Janis's speed was evident. That boy can fly. Too bad he can't catch.
3. The first half did not look like a good game for Aaron Jones, Blake Martinez, or Kenny Clark. Of course, they could've been playing fine, but none of them jumped off the screen like they've been doing all year. Only Martinez started flashing in the second half, but still subpar vs prior games.
4. Back to back non calls of obvious DPIs against Slay after the fumble. Those were both terrible. I qualify that by imagining if the situations were reversed (i.e. GB defending). If I saw Randall doing that, I'd've been furious he caused us those penalties.
5. Stafford was pinpoint tonight. It was a very accurate night for him. He completed so many passes in really tight coverage.
5. When Hundley started throwing the ball down the field, he made some good passes. Too bad the D couldn't help him.

And to those who are complaining about the tire fire on defense, the only thing missing is pass rush. It's vastly superior than the years when the Packers couldn't even stop Fritz's grandma from running wild (God rest her soul). Maybe Capers isn't the answer. I don't know, but I suspect people are just tired of the devil they know and assume the devil they don't know will be better. The run defense is more consistent, the defensive backs are young and improving (Randall has been consistent since his benching, King flashes enough to think he's Big Time, Jones just needs seasoning).

I suspect next week the offense will be even better. The last time Rodgers was out for an extended period, the Packers didn't win for five weeks. They went from 5-2 to 5-6-1. This time they don't have their backup out for the season after one series, they're third string is still on the bench, and they don't have to go to a retread (yet) to show an offense that can move the ball. They just need consistency which requires experience to build.

The biggest disappointment to me was the absence of Aaron Jones. Can he not run it against a stacked box at all? Monty did more than him, but Monty has demonstrated he is not as skilled in space. Maybe timing of opportunities.

[Pugger]

yes.

It may be that the offense became so tuned to Rodger's special skill set, that it's just going to take considerable time to adjust it for someone else. The Coaches obviously know this because they went to the dink and dunk game (as Maxi points out, because this is Hundley's 'strength'). But that path quickly died because the other team has a defense and adjusted. They're going to have to go to another plan with route combinations that get WRs open. Receivers are going to have to learn to compete for the ball instead of catching perfect back shoulder or sideline fades/combacks or getting third opportunity passes as they sit down in a zone or open spot vacated by defenders pursuing Rodgers avoiding the pass rush for 6 second.

If they can't improve O-line play so that they can run the ball and get real play-action opportunities, they are totally finished. The O-line was awful last night.

If our WRs can finally learn how to compete for the ball and get separation so our QB doesn't have to hang onto the ball forever imagine what they'll be able to do when Godgers comes back in 2018.

[Smidgeon]

Maybe I'm wrong about Callahan and Hill, but not about Hundley. Not from what I saw the last two weeks. And yeah, considering it was a home game after a bye week against Detroit, it's pretty much a tire fire.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Callahan and Hill would be so much worse against starting NFL talent. Hundley was a fifth round pick. Even with a bye week to prepare, he needs game experience to elevate to mimicking a full time starter.

You're being impatient if you thought Hundley would be all world within two and a half games. So no, not a tire fire. They're still figuring out what works. And when he started pushing the ball down the field (2 minute drill & second half), he showed good ball placement and such. The D couldn't help him though. Not in this game.

[Pugger]

Old habits die hard. There was a reason he stuck around till the 5th round. Maybe TT felt that Stubby could drum some of his bad habits out of him and they'd found a diamond in the rough. We'll find out over the second half of the season 'cause I don't think they'll give up on him.

I think you may have hit upon the truth here. They probably did think Mike could make a silk purse out of sow's ear like he did with Flynn. It isn't a mortal sin that a QB we picked in the 5th round isn't the second coming of Russell Wilson. If Hundley was a higher pick then this might be a major mistake. Brett might be one of those players who looks better at practice than he does in games.

[woodbuck27]

Why did Aaron Jones disappear last night?

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG

T. Montgomery 5 33 0 9
B. Hundley 4 22 1 12

A. Jones 5 12 0 4

T. Davis 1 9 0 9
R. Cobb 1 1 0 1
J. Williams 1 1 1 1T

Was it because he missed a BLOCK?

[Pugger]

At this point, Maxie, what's the difference? The defense is a sieve. Let's see what Hundley's got - or not got.

I'm really sour on this team, this defensive coordinator, and maybe even the HC. And beyond that, maybe TT's getting stale, too. I dunno. Maybe the ship will right to some extent, but that looked like a really lousy, unprepared effort given they were coming off a bye.

I'm not down on Stubby just yet. It isn't easy to have a functional offense with a QB who has issues reading defenses. Last night we had everyone back on offense but #12 so if things aren't working it has to be that position.

[woodbuck27]

Packer Nation Sings:

[Pugger]

Got back from the game late last night. Here are my impressions.

1. I don't know why the opposing team has a punter on the active roster when they play the Packers. You are wasting a roster slot.
2. Daniels may be the defensive leader but that is twice already this year on the opening drive that the D has gotten a stop on 3rd down and he gets a roughing call. A leader doesn't do that. Daniels got chewed out on the bench after that series.
3. Capers needs to go. He might have a great scheme and all, but team after team does the same thing. Run the WRs deep or up the field and let the slot WR, TE or RB run across the middle. Every team does the same thing. You need to change it up.
4. Hundley did well for his 2nd start when he was allowed to throw the ball down the field. That long ball to Adams was a dart that reminded me of ARod. The ball didn't get more that 15 feet above the ground. If he puts just a touch more air on that Adams gets more than his finger tips on the ball.
5. Too much throwing the ball behind the line of scrimmage and too many misdirection runs with a crossing WR or in motion RB. That 4th down Cobb run was a perfect example.
6. The DET CBs didn't respect the Packer WRs. They played mostly tight and the refs let them grab and bump and hand fight. We had more success when we ran quick slants and crossing routes when the D didn't have time to grab and clutch.

I wonder why DBs can get away with that when they play us and if our DBs sneeze on a WR flags fly? I don't care what the officials call as long as they call it the same for both sides.

[Pugger]

Packer WRs seem to be upset that the DBs actually touch them. Instead of hand checking back and fighting through them, they seem more likely to try and avoid contact, which blows up timing and never draws penalties. Man up.

Could our WRs lack of going after the ball and fighting thru all that be a coaching issue?

[Maxie the Taxi]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Callahan and Hill would be so much worse against starting NFL talent. Hundley was a fifth round pick. Even with a bye week to prepare, he needs game experience to elevate to mimicking a full time starter.

You're being impatient if you thought Hundley would be all world within two and a half games. So no, not a tire fire. They're still figuring out what works. And when he started pushing the ball down the field (2 minute drill & second half), he showed good ball placement and such. The D couldn't help him though. Not in this game.

You predicting something better next Sunday at Soldier Field? I say the tire fire will still be burning and Trubisky outplays Hundley.

[Pugger]

My impression from last night is that packers are a below average team everywhere and Detroit is a formidable team when Stafford is hot.

Any competent QB is gonna look like a world beater if he isn't touched or pressed.

[woodbuck27]

Any competent QB is gonna look like a world beater if he isn't touched or pressed.

The LIONS Big Issue is simply taking that otherwise solid Offense and getting it done in 'the Red Zone'.

[Pugger]

My impression from last night is that packers are a below average team everywhere and Detroit is a formidable team when Stafford is hot.

Any competent QB is gonna look like a world beater if he isn't touched or pressed.

[Smidgeon]

You predicting something better next Sunday at Soldier Field? I say the tire fire will still be burning and Trubisky outplays Hundley.

Yes. I predict the offense will look better next week. Even the Packers offense with Rodgers looks that bad sometimes (the first half reminded me a lot of late 2015/early 2016). I don't think the D is as bad overall as many people on here claim. I think they had a bad game. I don't think the O is as permanently bad as it appeared yesterday. I think Hundley will keep improving, but yesterday was not all on him. Far from it.

Trubisky might outplay Hundley (Top 5 pick vs Round 5 pick), but we'll see (I haven't watched any Bears games, so I have no idea how quickly Trubi is picking up the NFL pace).

[Pugger]

Maybe I'm wrong about Callahan and Hill, but not about Hundley. Not from what I saw the last two weeks. And yeah, considering it was a home game after a bye week against Detroit, it's pretty much a tire fire.

I liked Hill better than Callahan and Hill is on the Saint's active roster, unfortunately.