Hey, no posting personal information, including pictures of yourself.Originally Posted by woodbuck27
YOU.....Know IT !
Hey, no posting personal information, including pictures of yourself.
YOU.....Know IT !
"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck
Yes, I believe so. I recall you arriving on the short bus.
It was a rhetorical question.
"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck
[QUOTE=mraynrand;957850]I see you're good at providing fact free analysis too. What you posted has nothing to do with what I was asking for. Someone throws out a statement that the Packers don't draft as well as other teams with nothing to support it, and I call bullshit. You've added nothing to that conversation - par for the course. But you impressed woodcock - that alone should fill you with shame. I await your next brilliant summation.[/QUOTE
Oh I added something and your response proves that. And to be fair someone can make a statement without supporting it and it can still be true. Sorry we all don't have time to give you detailed analysis with spreadsheets and matrices to 'back up' our opinion. All I have is the Scoreboard.
OK, well, if you're gonna 'bottom line' it then the Packers org. has been more successful than 1-3 teams over the TT/Stubby/Capers era, so you're crushingly wrong by your own standard. But we already knew that. Try again, or just fall back on your typical empty snark as usual.
"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck
It's the pass rush. A fearsome pass rush will make your defense look worlds better.
You can't expect DBs to cover for 4 seconds in the modern NFL unless they are Pro bowlers...GB's aren't.
They don't have anyone in the secondary like Nick Collins who took iffy angles but had enough speed to erase mistakes, or the versatility of Woodson. Maybe Josh Jones can grow into Collins, but guys like Woodson -- DPOY caliber guys -- are rare.
You can't tell CM3 or Perry to take a pay cut - they are the only pass rushers they have. It's up to TT to spend a few high round picks on pass rush.
Given drafting is basically a coin flip, you have to take a lot of guesses to get it right. Trouble is, when you use high value picks you can't afford to guess wrong. Fackrell will stick because of where he was drafted and because he's decent on special teams. This is basically a redshirt year for Biegel and Montravious Adams. I'm pretty sure TT & Co. know what they need to do to the roster...but until then all we can do is watch.
The argument that most teams draft better on defense is iffy IMO. Drafting at the top of a round vs. the bottom can make a huge difference on roster talent, some years there are only 10-15 bonafide first round talents in the draft...and GM's make lots of mistakes. Look at the drafts the rest of the NFCN have had over the last 4 years...Green Bay has drafted at least as good as the rest, and I'd argue only Minnesota comes close to having drafted as well, mostly because they hit on several defensive players.
Wow. Your happy with the results this regime has proffered over the last decade? I guess I expect better than one SB appearance and choke jobs when it matters. Like all message boards and forums online this one has it's philistine contingent which as usual I rub the wrong way due to pointing out the obvious. I define success not by how the 'stats' say I look over a given period. I define it as Winning Championships. And not 'division' championships either....more non sense..... So go use your 'stats' to 'prove' you arguments to all your sycophant buddies and ignore people like me who don't buy what you're selling.
Whether it's the talent or the coaching, this sort of stuff has gone on long enough that it might just be time for a new voice.
https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/s...54643242864641
I blame Capers for the lions share of the issue, but not all of it. I appreciate the TT way, but when you operate as he does using mostly the draft and UFA's, and not a lot of FA's, save for this last off-season, you really need to have better results from more of the picks. If you know you have not hit on a lot of your recent draft picks on defense, you need to know when it's time to fish or cut bait and think even harder about bringing a more immediate impact player.
That said, Capers has had his chance and should be dismissed. He did better when he had Kevin Greene, Greg Lloyd, Levon Kirkland, Carnell Lake...you get the point, back in the 1990's. Nobody is going to mistake our defensive personnel with the 1994 Steeler's defense, but he did well with those really good players. Just sayin' Again, I am not defending him remaining, I'm just saying it's personnel as much as it is anything, and the person in charge of that mostly is TT.
Perhaps TT will leave, even though Mark Murphy has said publicly that he can be there as long as he wants, and by leave I mean, we'll make it look like it was your idea and you'll take a scouting job or fully retire. We need a GM that is more aggressive in free agency without guaranteeing stupid money, to offset the possibility of not hitting on personnel, which TT clearly has not done consistently on D. Sure, I get that there have been a ton of injuries, and youth, but then the scheme needs to be more simplified.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
So when should they have fired Thompson and McCarthy, 2011?
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Question: What is the best you could expect of this defense as is with the most competent coaching in the League?
1. Best two corners are out
2. Rookie playing safety
3. No pass rush
4. Safeties playing corners getting beat deep, necessitating deep help.
ishmael's link to Fennell's stats is disturbing in the extreme. Worse that some of those same stats in 2013. However, the Packers D are still 21st in points allowed.
The confusion in the backfield is maddening. But I think its different this year (Randall making mistakes in slot and now Jones making mistakes in slot) than in the past when even vets got it wrong.
But if you sub out the entire staff and don't let M3 dictate the philosophy, what is the best you think this defense is capable of now?
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Ted should probably never have been hired, in hindsight. He took the Ron Wolf draft and develop idea (which is a shaky philosophy to begin with) to more of an extreme than Wolf. He got a rep as a good GM because Aaron Rodgers was (hopefully still is) so damn good that the mediocrity of the team otherwise was not obvious. Thompson supporters may not like reading that, but it's true - damn true.
I dread the idea of Elliott Wolf as the next GM, since he probably is a disciple of Ted and Ron. The only hope is that several former Packer personnel people snapped out of it when they went elsewhere.
Draft and develop isn't bad if you are great at drafting. You could say Ted has just been unlucky - ever since drafting Rodgers and maybe Matthews, but that many years of bad luck, he must have broken several mirrors. And supplementing deficiencies with free agent pickups? Unthinkable, and the very very few exceptions have been crap most of the time - since Woodson, maybe - and even he was thought by most to be over the hill when we got him.
McCarthy is an ok coach. Playing not to lose/being too cautious generally wins games if you have a good team. The most annoying thing about him IMO is failing to develop young talent - often letting it sit on the bench damn near forever. Would we have even seen Aaron Jones, for example, if injuries hadn't forced it? There's a guy I'd like to see at Corner, Donatello Brown, who hasn't even smelled game action - while the players we have in there flounder.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
My gut feeling is the defense is just too complicated. It's crazy that at the end of the year, rookies still cannot contribute. These people have been playing football their entire lives. How hard could it really be?
I recall that Gus Bradley and his successor preached and valued simplicity of scheme over everything else so that players can just play fast. That does seem to be the way to go forward here.
If there is anything that annoys me about the Packers D, and there isn't much, it's that we hear year after year how the young folks cannot thrive it in and need to be coached up quite a bit. That is a smell that it's too complicated to me.
Simplicity is a luxury you can only afford if you have superior talent. We don't.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
After the choke job in Seattle for M3 for sure. Thompson '15. How's that?
Absolutely. Watch the 'queens. There isn't anything complex about what they do, it starts with line play.
But you can't quantify that well enough for the philistines here. It's not enough to watch them play and say they pass the eye test or not around here otherwise your opinion is invalidated. Bring some spreadsheets!!
So substitute embarrassing loss with a spectacular player failure for lack of championships as the criteria? So if Bostick blocks rather than jumps, McCarthy is a better coach?
This criteria is only one step better than CHAMPIONSHIPS! because it actually considers coaching as a factor in players contributing to defeat.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
The Vikings play some of the best disguised coverages in the League. Rodgers has spoken about this at length as a feature of Zimmer as their coach (Bengals DC and Vikes HC).
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Capers does the same. He disguises the defense to actually make the offense think we're going to cover and tackle them.
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