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Thread: Rodgers to Overturn Historical Precedent

  1. #1
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    Rodgers to Overturn Historical Precedent

    As opening weekend of the 2009 NFL season draws near, the huge story out of Green Bay is the extraordinary quarterback play of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers lit up the preseason, with QB ratings never before seen in Green Bay, not even under the guidance of QB legend and confirmed prima donna, Brett Favre. What is also true is that Rodgers is about to embark upon a path that will lead him to break the most difficult of all NFL barriers – specifically, to follow immediately after a Hall of Fame quarterback with a second Hall of Fame career. To Cleft Crusty’s knowledge, back-to-back hall of fame quarterback careers within one franchise have been achieved but one time, and that is a special case.

    First, let’s look at the failures. Take for example, four recent HOF inductees who played their entire careers for one team: Dan Marino, Troy Aikman, Dan Fouts, and John Elway. Each had a long career and each were followed by a QB who was marginal at best, specifically Jay Fielder (QB rating 74.5), Babe Laufenberg (59.3), Quincy Carter (63), and Brian Griese (75.6). Griese bounced back in 2000, posting a102.9 rating in 11 games, but the circumstances are telling – he was in an explosive offense that generated over 2000 yards rushing, and along with 1776 yards from Gus Ferrote, posted over 4,000 passing yards passing. But Griese wasn’t all that durable or effective, bowing out after 11 games in 2000 and reverting to 78.5 and 85 in 2001 and 2002, yielding to Jake Plummer in 2003. The Broncos still haven’t discovered a replacement for Elway. The Cowboys trotted out Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe, before switching to Tony Romo in 2006, and he may not even be the answer, having yet to win a playoff game in two (home) attempts. Since Fouts, San Diego has experienced such quarterbacking delights as Jim McMahon, Billy Joe Tolliver, John Friesz, and Stan Humphries who, even when they were winning games, like in 1994, tended to toss interceptions as frequently as touchdowns. Other hall of fame QBs like Jim Kelly (Collins, Flutie), Fran Tarkenton(Tommy Kramer), Terry Bradshaw(Woodley, Malone), and of course Bart Starr(a real collection of stiffs including Zeke Bratkowski, Don Horn, Scott Hunter, Jerry Tagge, and John Hadl), were also followed by duds. To be fair, many of these teams were winding down from several years to decades of success, including the tremendous dynasties in Green Bay, Pittsburgh and San Francisco, so the organizations themselves were in a down cycles.

    There are a couple of notable exceptions. First, Steve Young followed on the heels of Joe Montana, but Young was a seasoned, established starter by the time he took the reigns. With two seasons in the USFL, and seven in the NFL including 19 starts for Tampa Bay and 20 more for San Francisco in relief of Montana, Young was a pretty good bet to succeed, even though he struggled at times, giving way on occasion to prototypical backup Steve Bono (As an aside, Cleft Crusty believes that Bono’s father eschewed the clichéd football in the crib at Steve’s birth in favor of a visor and clipboard). Also, Danny White was a notably effective replacement in Dallas for Roger Staubach and Jeff Garcia put together a few years for San Francisco, but neither will make the Hall of Fame like Young.

    So we come back now to Rodgers, who is a product of GM Ted Thompson’s philosophy that has become clear over the last several years: Get the franchish QB, hire a head coach with QB coaching skills who can instruct him, and let him develop until ready to lead. In his first season, Rodgers’ win loss record was nothing spectacular, but his performance was. Suffering through a painful shoulder injury, he put up (you know the numbers) 4038yards, 28TDs against 13 interceptions and a QB rating of 93.8, engineering some effective come-from-behind drives in several games, only to be let down by missed and blocked field goals, or collapsing defenses. The sky is the limit for Rodgers, and he may well break the precedent that a new QB, with no starting experience, can follow a hall of fame quarterback with a hall of fame career of his own. Given some of the miserable droughts other teams have suffered – like the Arizona Cardinals hoping to replace Jimmy Conzelman, Detoit trying to find their next Bobby Layne, Cleveland their next Otto Graham (apologies to Brian Sipe) and Chicago their Sid Luckman – Packer fans should be thanking the football gods that they likely will not have to suffer through a century long quarterback drought, let alone a drought lasting even one season.

  2. #2
    Rodgers a HOFer? We'll see.

  3. #3
    Red Devil Rat HOFer gbgary's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Nice article Cliffy.

    Progression towards a HOF type career requires a couple of things that can't be taken for granted:

    1) He has to continue to get better.
    2) He has to sustain a high level of performance over a long period of time while remaining durable.
    3) He has to have a supporting cast that won't hold him back.


    There are still a lot of things that could trip him up. However, so far, so good.

  5. #5
    I beg to complain:

    Otto Graham->Milt Plum->Frank Ryan->Mike Phipps->Brian Sipe->Paul McDonald-Bernie Kosar

    That looks like Murderer's Row compared to the laundry room attendants they have been running out there since Kosar's bulbous elbow cause Bill Belicheck to release him in order to avoid becoming ill at the sight of the giant lump.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax
    I beg to complain:

    Otto Graham->Milt Plum->Frank Ryan->Mike Phipps->Brian Sipe->Paul McDonald-Bernie Kosar

    That looks like Murderer's Row compared to the laundry room attendants they have been running out there since Kosar's bulbous elbow cause Bill Belicheck to release him in order to avoid becoming ill at the sight of the giant lump.
    Cleft Crusty concedes the esteemed career of Milt Plum. Still, Crusty believes Rodgers is on track to make history. Two very good seasons so far and a playoff appearance to boot. Hall of fame QBs are made in the post season. Let's see what this kid has in the second season.

  7. #7
    Fried Rat HOFer KYPack's Avatar
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    That is one King Hell post, Cleft.
    Lots of good work in that one.

    What type of oil treatment do you use in that old clunker you drive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarlam!
    Rodgers a HOFer? We'll see.

    Believe It !!
    Is it really a halo or
    just a swelled head ?

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    Postal Rat HOFer Joemailman's Avatar
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    Anyone up to providing a QB genealogy on the Bears since Sid Luckman?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Joemailman
    Anyone up to providing a QB genealogy on the Bears since Sid Luckman?
    Here is a start....

    1979: Mike Phipps, Vince Evans, Bob Avellini
    1980: Phipps, Evans
    1981: Evans
    1982: Bob Avellini, Jim McMahon
    1983: McMahon, Evans
    1984: McMahon, Avellini, Steve Fuller, Rusty Lisch, Greg Landry
    1985: McMahon, Steve Fuller
    1986: McMahon, Mike Tomczak, Steve Fuller, Doug Flutie
    1987: McMahon, Tomczak
    1988: McMahon, Tomczak, Jim Harbaugh
    1989: Tomczak, Harbaugh
    1990: Harbaugh, Tomczak
    1991: Harbaugh
    1992: Harbaugh, Peter Tom Willis, Will Furrer
    1993: Harbaugh, Willis
    1994: Erik Kramer, Steve Walsh
    1995: Kramer
    1996: Kramer, Dave Kreig
    1997: Kramer, Rick Mirer
    1998: Kramer, Steve Stenstrom, Moses Moreno
    1999: Shane Matthews, Cade McNown, Jim Miller
    2000: McNown, Matthews, Miller
    2001: Miller, Matthews
    2002: Miller, Chris Chandler, Henry Burris
    2003: Kordell Stewart, Chandler, Rex Grossman
    2004: Grossman, Jonathan Quinn, Craig Krenzel, Chad Hutchinson
    2005: Kyle Orton, Grossman
    2006: Grossman
    2007: Grossman, Brian Griese, Orton
    2008: Orton, Grossman
    2009: Cutler
    After lunch the players lounged about the hotel patio watching the surf fling white plumes high against the darkening sky. Clouds were piling up in the west… Vince Lombardi frowned.

  11. #11
    Stout Rat HOFer Guiness's Avatar
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    that's a great list, Roark. Didn't they give Jim Miller a pretty big contract after he was their QB for that 13 win flash in the pan season?

    I remember he also picked himself up an SB ring as NE's 3rd QB.
    --
    Imagine for a moment a world without hypothetical situations...

  12. #12
    I now know why Bearman isn't right in the head.

  13. #13
    I always thought both Miller and Kramer got the short ends of the stick there. Did each get injured? I am pretty sure I remember Miller having something serious go wrong.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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    Senior Rat All-Pro Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax
    I always thought both Miller and Kramer got the short ends of the stick there. Did each get injured? I am pretty sure I remember Miller having something serious go wrong.
    Yeah Miller had a bunch of bad injuries during his career. I wanna say he tore his achilles in Chi, but I can't remember for sure.

    FWIW I really like Jim nowadays. He's a regular on Sirius NFL radio. Basically like a laid back version of Jaws. A lot of Sirius listeners tried to get ESPN to pick him up instead of Gruden for Monday Night. I can see him making the jump to TV in the booth pretty soon. I'm pretty sure that he wants to do it, and he's proven himself on the radio.

  15. #15
    Was that list of Bear "QBs" of any who played at all, or just ones who started a game in a given season. If it is just starters, what really stands out is that only 5 times in 31 years have the Bears had only 1 QB for a season.
    Fire Murphy, Gute, MLF, Barry, Senavich, etc!

  16. #16
    Senior Rat HOFer Bossman641's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist
    Was that list of Bear "QBs" of any who played at all, or just ones who started a game in a given season. If it is just starters, what really stands out is that only 5 times in 31 years have the Bears had only 1 QB for a season.
    I'm fairly certain that is a list of QB's who started a game
    Go PACK

  17. #17
    Moose Rat HOFer woodbuck27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowardRoark
    Quote Originally Posted by Joemailman
    Anyone up to providing a QB genealogy on the Bears since Sid Luckman?
    Here is a start....

    1979: Mike Phipps, Vince Evans, Bob Avellini
    1980: Phipps, Evans
    1981: Evans
    1982: Bob Avellini, Jim McMahon
    1983: McMahon, Evans
    1984: McMahon, Avellini, Steve Fuller, Rusty Lisch, Greg Landry
    1985: McMahon, Steve Fuller
    1986: McMahon, Mike Tomczak, Steve Fuller, Doug Flutie
    1987: McMahon, Tomczak
    1988: McMahon, Tomczak, Jim Harbaugh
    1989: Tomczak, Harbaugh
    1990: Harbaugh, Tomczak
    1991: Harbaugh
    1992: Harbaugh, Peter Tom Willis, Will Furrer
    1993: Harbaugh, Willis
    1994: Erik Kramer, Steve Walsh
    1995: Kramer
    1996: Kramer, Dave Kreig
    1997: Kramer, Rick Mirer
    1998: Kramer, Steve Stenstrom, Moses Moreno
    1999: Shane Matthews, Cade McNown, Jim Miller
    2000: McNown, Matthews, Miller
    2001: Miller, Matthews
    2002: Miller, Chris Chandler, Henry Burris
    2003: Kordell Stewart, Chandler, Rex Grossman
    2004: Grossman, Jonathan Quinn, Craig Krenzel, Chad Hutchinson
    2005: Kyle Orton, Grossman
    2006: Grossman
    2007: Grossman, Brian Griese, Orton
    2008: Orton, Grossman
    2009: Cutler
    That really close to two dozen QB's ( I counted 22 ) since Brett Favre became a Green Bay Packer and to date continues to be the NFL Ironman of all time.

    and... Aaron Rodgers is looking very good. I like the way the team has turned it around this season and they have a few hurdles remaining but no less and no matter what lies ahead in these playoffs. An impressive season.

    GO PACKERS!
    ** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
    ** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
    ** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
    ** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. Thoreau

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax
    I always thought both Miller and Kramer got the short ends of the stick there. Did each get injured? I am pretty sure I remember Miller having something serious go wrong.
    i thought miller was by far their best QB over the last 15 years

    but every year they tried to replace him

    i was living in hades (chicago) back then and bears fans just hated him

    i thought he had talent, he looked like an oaf but i guess thats better then looking like a douche like their current guy

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by red
    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax
    I always thought both Miller and Kramer got the short ends of the stick there. Did each get injured? I am pretty sure I remember Miller having something serious go wrong.
    i thought miller was by far their best QB over the last 15 years

    but every year they tried to replace him

    i was living in hades (chicago) back then and bears fans just hated him

    i thought he had talent, he looked like an oaf but i guess thats better then looking like a douche like their current guy
    Kramer was pretty good in 1995, the year Favre won his first MVP.
    comp att pct yds yds/att td int sacks yds rat
    EK: 315 522 60.3 3,838 7.4 29 10 15 95 93.5
    BF: 359 570 63.0 4,413 7.7 38 13 33 217 99.5

  20. #20
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    Clefty is attempting to get a raise from 58 cents/hour from the UrinalScented. Being right about something - or at least the appearance of being right - might help the 'powers that be' forget about a few prescription drug-related post game chat failures.

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