More Banjo: Week 14 @ Cleveland

[pbmax]

here's a good point...

matthews-probably-saved-the-packers-season/

That post is horse manure.

Kizer had already broken the pocket once, that always causes the backfield to recalibrate.

He then tried to throw which is why those DBs in the GIF are breaking on the shorter routes. He couldn't get the pass off and had to retreat.

At this point one guy was open deep with no one around but it would be a huge throw to get it to him because Kizer is 15 yards behind the LOS and others are chasing him.

This backfield looks no different than Rodgers running his extended offense, except the QB is Kizer and not Rodgers.

[gbgary]

That post is horse manure.

Kizer had already broken the pocket once, that always causes the backfield to recalibrate.

He then tried to throw which is why those DBs in the GIF are breaking on the shorter routes. He couldn't get the pass off and had to retreat.

At this point one guy was open deep with no one around but it would be a huge throw to get it to him because Kizer is 15 yards behind the LOS and others are chasing him.

This backfield looks no different than Rodgers running his extended offense, except the QB is Kizer and not Rodgers.

how is it manure? they went into a scramble drill and had two guys open (one uncovered). clay hitting his arm made the pop up. seems clear to me.

[Maxie the Taxi]

pb, How come in the cluster at the top of the screen there are three Packer defenders on two Browns receivers? It seems like when Crowell breaks down the sideline no Packer goes with him.

[pbmax]

pb, How come in the cluster at the top of the screen there are three Packer defenders on two Browns receivers? It seems like when Crowell breaks down the sideline no Packer goes with him.

Its not the teaching film you want for extended play coverage, but its pretty typical. Both Wilde and Huber are using it as evidence that the Defense might not even be able to be saved by Rodgers. Which is funny for Wilde who doesn't like to write X and O stuff because he knows he is out of his depth. That is not a slam, he has talked out it before. Its a tough beat to write because you are doing two jobs and you need to consult people outside the org to get answers.

The early portion of the video backs up to the earliest part of the clip (7 seconds in maybe). Three receivers up there, three DBs. Kizer has already half rolled out to his right/Defense left. That drew players up. Which put that RB even with the Packer outside DB.

He wanted to go to Gordon, but Randall was doing a veteran hold/blanket. But he could not setup to throw to another receiver as he had two Packers on him, so he retreats.

Packer CB forgets all about the RB at this point. Its not good coverage, but in an extended play with the QB running, DBs are trying to read the QB because the play has broken down and whatever patterns were being run are now being adjusted.

Kizer might have been trying to get to that side of the field, I did not get that sense from the TV angles but it looks like that is where his head was aiming at as he retreats. I don't think he is going down the middle deep as that coverage isn't terrible even if the WR has a step and a half. It would be a better than 40 yard throw while going backward.

The play was all Matthews and a nice jump ball catch from Jones. Prior to the QB retreat, it was some nice zone with good closing on their matchups. But the extended play coverage I bet is pretty typical not an indicator of the ruination of the Packer D.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Thanks for the explanation, pb. I am out of my depth too when it comes to x's and o's.

I've just seen this kind of...let's call it decision-making or communication...breakdown way too often, especially against elite QB's. If that was Newton or Wentz or Arod or even Big Ben instead of Kizer, the play might have ended in a TD.

We'll see this Sunday because we're playing Newton and McCaffrey who, like Arod, make a living on extending plays.

[pbmax]

Thanks for the explanation, pb. I am out of my depth too when it comes to x's and o's.

I've just seen this kind of...let's call it decision-making or communication...breakdown way too often, especially against elite QB's. If that was Newton or Wentz or Arod or even Big Ben instead of Kizer, the play might have ended in a TD.

We'll see this Sunday because we're playing Newton and McCaffrey who, like Arod, make a living on extending plays.

I imagine its a point of emphasis against QBs who escape to throw. And the rule of thumb is if you are the deepest you have to stay deep until you know the throw isn't coming toward you. Its possible they all thought he was going to continue forward and either throw or run when he rolled to his right at first. that probably broke typical coverage on that play. Pass rush always helps. Not even Rodgers sees all WR who break free while improvising.

[mraynrand]

PB, only my wife and a few drunks behind me can vouch for this, but I saw Crowell leaking out deep left sideline and was shouting, hands on head, that he was open. I was sure that was where Kizer was looking. But his footwork wasn't good due to the pressure and his arm is not terribly strong, so I'm not certain the ball would have gotten there even had Matthews not hit him. For all we know, he was just trying to throw it away. I think the Drunk to my left summarized it best: Keeyzeer saaaks!

[pbmax]

PB, only my wife and a few drunks behind me can vouch for this, but I saw Crowell leaking out deep left sideline and was shouting, hands on head, that he was open. I was sure that was where Kizer was looking. But his footwork wasn't good due to the pressure and his arm is not terribly strong, so I'm not certain the ball would have gotten there even had Matthews not hit him. For all we know, he was just trying to throw it away. I think the Drunk to my left summarized it best: Keeyzeer saaaks!

I'll have to go back to the DVR and look at the entire play but its possible no one picked up on the Crow at all.

However I think his QB had to notice it after he rolled the other way. Be an odd play to roll right to the hash mark then throw a deep wheel route to the opposite sideline. Pretty sure Kizer wanted Gordon on the right first.

I am not putting it past the D backfield to lose a guy out of the backfield, I am just saying this is not evidence of a beyond salvation defense.

[gbgary]

Pretty sure Kizer wanted Gordon on the right first.

that would have been a much harder throw (and catch for that matter) than going down the side line to an uncovered guy.

[hoosier]

I'll have to go back to the DVR and look at the entire play but its possible no one picked up on the Crow at all.

However I think his QB had to notice it after he rolled the other way. Be an odd play to roll right to the hash mark then throw a deep wheel route to the opposite sideline. Pretty sure Kizer wanted Gordon on the right first.

I am not putting it past the D backfield to lose a guy out of the backfield, I am just saying this is not evidence of a beyond salvation defense.

It was at least partially a zone coverage and Josh Jones was in the area that Crowell passed through on his way up the sideline. But the TE was also in that zone and Jones had to pick one. When Kizer came off his first read and got in trouble, Jones (correctly, I would guess) went with the guy who was running the short out, which would have been an easier thrown for Kizer to make as he was scrambling to his left and backpeddling. Crowell at that point came wide open but I'm not sure even ARod could have made that throw.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It was at least partially a zone coverage and Josh Jones was in the area that Crowell passed through on his way up the sideline. But the TE was also in that zone and Jones had to pick one. When Kizer came off his first read and got in trouble, Jones (correctly, I would guess) went with the guy who was running the short out, which would have been an easier thrown for Kizer to make as he was scrambling to his left and backpeddling. Crowell at that point came wide open but I'm not sure even ARod could have made that throw.

Maybe Cam Newton?

http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/...6-00b832821644

[Fritz]

PB, only my wife and a few drunks behind me can vouch for this, but I saw Crowell leaking out deep left sideline and was shouting, hands on head, that he was open. I was sure that was where Kizer was looking. But his footwork wasn't good due to the pressure and his arm is not terribly strong, so I'm not certain the ball would have gotten there even had Matthews not hit him. For all we know, he was just trying to throw it away. I think the Drunk to my left summarized it best: Keeyzeer saaaks!

If he's like me at all, it sounds like he had too much coffee.

[mraynrand]

If he's like me at all, it sounds like he had too much coffee.

Maybe. He’s too young to be taking avodart

[mraynrand]

PB. You are right. I think he saw Crowell after coming back to the Left. Like I say I think he saw him and was going there with the ball but there’s no reason to believe he would have completed that pass. But it doesn’t make sense to parse it any further because your have to say something like “OK well if he only had x amount of pressure without getting his arm hit he would have completed the pass.” I don’t have any problem saying it was a great game changing play by Clay. Give the guy some props - he wanted to show off for the ancestral home town.

[denverYooper]

PB. You are right. I think he saw Crowell after coming back to the Left. Like I say I think he saw him and was going there with the ball but there’s no reason to believe he would have completed that pass. But it doesn’t make sense to parse it any further because your have to say something like “OK well if he only had x amount of pressure without getting his arm hit he would have completed the pass.” I don’t have any problem saying it was a great game changing play by Clay. Give the guy some props - he wanted to show off for the ancestral home town.

He remembered the face of his father.

[gbgary]

there’s no reason to believe he would have completed that pass.

why not? young athletic guy with a strong arm. had his arm not been hit all he really had to do was keep it in bounds for it to be completed.

[mraynrand]

^^^ That's pretty good veteran technique. Head is turned to the ball, so refs let a lot of hand-checking and contact go. He's got a hold on Gordon's arm enough to hinder the catch. Well done, D-man!

But I agree that he's immature. But he's come a long way from where he was earlier this season.

[pbmax]

OK, back with the DVR and the Browns game, first drive of OT. Its 3rd and 1 and the entire play design and Packer defense are set for a short yardage play.

Browns in 11 personnel I believe (definitely 1 back) and they show balanced formation (2 receivers outside each tackle) out of huddle but quickly motion to four man bunch on (Defense's) right. Packers are in single high safety with Jones and Burnett in slot, Randall and Hawkins outside and HaHa deep.

Looks like man and they are doing the zone to matchup man thing deal with the bunch with Jones and Hawkins hanging back to take last man or deep outside route. Burnett is pressing the receiver on the LOS. Randall is one on one with Gordon.

At the snap Kizer looks immediately to left for Gordon on the slant but Randall is bumping him and in his front pocket, not trailing, making a slant throw a problem. Kizer cannot wait a moment because Matthews has pushed the RT into Kizer. He steps OUTSIDE to give himself a new throwing lane (still looking for Gordon) because Matthews is there with an upraised arm to get in the slant throwing lane.

This backfires because Matthews is still there and picks off Daniels blocker as Daniels runs to meet Kizer outside. That forces Kizer to retreat back toward the middle. That brings Ryan into the backfield because he has no near him to cover. The TE/WR (81) route in the middle is with Burnett.

Ponch, Burnett, Jones and Hawkins are dealing with the four receivers on the other side. But Kizer bailing outside on Matthew first rush brings Dix up on the left to help Randall who is the obvious target and then to chase Kizer. This leaves no one deep, which is a fine call for a short play designed to convert 3rd and 1, but is a terrible design to stop two deep routes on an extended play that we are about to have.

Nice veteran play by Brooks who hangs back on his rush in case that bunch went bubble screen. He either intercepts it or plants someone in the turf. When RB and TE both head outside, he rushes.

If you want proof the play is for Gordon, the backside receivers not only don't get a look, but the curl is covered, Jones is on the flat the TE is running but the RB (uncovered) is running a flat as well, two steps in front of the TE. As Kizer first breaks the pockets, all Browns receivers head are looking for the ball to come out.

Jon and Pinch are playing zone and patrolling the first down line. It was a good defensive call for this play BUT someone did blow coverage on the RB as they don't need five interior defenders with 3 out of 5 receivers running outside routes.