The Last jedi

[red]

discuss........

i haven't been this disappointed with a star wars movie since the phantom menace

i walked out of it just going.... huh

then the longer i had to digest it, the more i started to realize just how much i didn't like it

after the force awakens, i couldn't wait for the next one to come out, there were so many questions that needed answers. all those questions were answered in about the worst ways possible, and no new questions were answered

at this point i don't even care about the next one.

its almost like rian johnson has some kind of hatred for star wars and used this movie to shit all over all of it

[mraynrand]

I hear that Luke is a pussy. Well, he always sort of was - complaining to Leia about the loss of Ben, who he knew for all of a couple of days, after her planet got nuked. And don'e even talk about going into Toshi station for power converters...

This may be the first Star Wars I won't see in theaters. You think I would have learned after Episode II. Hey, let me tell you about sand and why I don't like it...

[ThunderDan]

I really liked.

I loved the last battle with the red salt under the white sand.

I thought the mirror scene with Rey was really dumb.

Still don’t know what to think about Yodi destroying the Jedi stuff.

[red]

there were moments that were good

just overall it didn't do much for me

[ThunderDan]

there were moments that were good

just overall it didn't do much for me

Not sure where film 9 goes from the end of 8.

[Zool]

Just got back from seeing it. It wasn’t as good as EP7, but still better than 1 2 or 3.

If you take out the boring space chase for the first 30 minutes and the casino scene it’s a really great follow up. The Jedi books were clearly shown on the flacon right at the end so Yoda only destroyed a tree to show Luke that it’s people who make up the Jedi not symbols.

The only thing other than the OJ chase scene that I didn’t like were the over abundance of jokes. Hologram Luke dusting off his shoulder was stupid.

Rey vs Kylo will be fun to watch in EP 9. That should be the theme instead of New Order vs Rebellion.

[mraynrand]

Just some thoughts after seeing this mess of a movie:

1) Ren is Ben? Some call him Kylo, some Ren, some Ben. Can people make up their minds? Where is Stimpy?
2) Passing of the guard to Emo Vader and the Millenial Falcon. These characters aren't really deep. mostly they posture and throw tantrums. It's like having to go see a movie starring my kids, fighting over who gets to drive.
3) It took Luke half of fucking episode IV to figure out the Millenial Falcon's firing system, yet Ray ray figures it out in a fews seconds and blows away tie fighters like she's playing an arcade game. I guess Millenials are good at Halo and stuff so makes sense.
4) WTF happened to tech advancement? The Millenial Falcon was old in Ep. 4-6. It should be totally ancient and easy to blow away now, right? Especially since it's a hunk of junk at the beginning of Ep 7. who made the 'special modifications?' Chewie maybe?
5) WTF with that Dern Purple Drank? If she's so goddamn smart why not a) send 3PO to drive the ship into the fleet at warp speed (win, win) or b) how about sending the ship right at the start of the chase, eh? And why the fuck couldn't she tell the Po po about her plans? It's not like he was gonna tell someone and blow the whole surprise, right? Also, he Federation has other ships right? Why not get on the horn to STARFLEET and have another ship warp in right in front of the Rumble alliance ships and blow them to shit. The plot devices are just plot devices, but it helps with suspension of disbelief if they are at least mildly plausible instead of numbingly stupid. I'm pretty sure I wrote a plot like this in the 4th grade. Maybe third.
6) WTF with the asian NHS member getting in the movie. Did she win a fan contest?
7) WTF with Chewie and the fuzzy penguins? Were they actually sentient? If so, why did Chewie murder and cook one? If not, why the fuck didn't he eat it?
8) Luke Skywalker - geebus what a loser.
7) Drunken Leia - can't they use CGI techniques to get rid of her slurred speech? I mean, I wanted them to do an intervention, except I know it's too late. Hey folks: don't wait before you commit your relatives with addictions. If Luke can use the force to transport his image across the galaxy, can't Leia use the force to make herself look slimmer and younger? If I could use the force, I'd project a full head of hair on myself. Stupid Jedi. Now you know why they're extinct.
8) Abe Vigoda reappears just to quote his old lines from episode V? I've been doing that for years for free. Maybe they could have signed me up instead of the honor roll asian chick. And I'm just as bald as Yoda so it works. Unless I use the force...
9) Vigoda's line about "a good read, it is not" or something about the 'sacred texts' was memorable, but it makes the whole Jedi religion look like a fraud. Ha ha - yeah the bible is the inspired word of God, but "skip over Numbers because you'll be bored"
10) The lightsaber battle in Snoke's chamber: Someone somewhere must have enjoyed that slaughter, but it was dreadful and boring. The conclusion, being foregone, made one focus on the fact that multiple people were being hacked to bits or immolated. I'm sure the 8 year olds were loving it.
11) BB8 in control of a walker thing slaughtering people: I'm sure this was funny or something - the crowd laughed - but it again begs the question: why have people fight and die when you can just program a medicine ball to kill things for you?
12) I can't wait until episode 10 or 15. I hopefully will be in the grave before then, but I'm certain the series won't have become even more stultifyingly boring by that time - mostly because I can't imagine it being any more boring. Is there anything at all interesting left to explore in this horrifically dull galaxy from far far away. The bad news is that the light from that galaxy will eventually reach ours. The good news is that we'll all be dead by then.

[Zool]

I'll take this one.

1. He was named after Ben Kenobi. He left the Jedi order and formed a group of evil doers called the Ren. Stimpy is still in space madness.
2. Spot on.
3. Rey is the ultimate good to fight Kylo's ultimate evil. She's been around machinery her whole life so ships etc. Weak plot device.
4. The Empire shut down tech advances for 30+ years, but the Aluminum Falcon is just for nostalgia.
5. RIGHT!? Why are they the first ones to figure out to shoot a ship through another ship at light speed? Get a freighter, point it at the Death Star, end scene.
6. And why the whole scene on the casino planet?
7. During the shooting, the crew could not keep the puffins out of the shots. They were everywhere. The bird things are actually puffins who got some CGI treatment.
8. Luke was okay. Mark Hamill is a bad actor.
9(7?) Fisher had to be on pain killers the whole time. Either that or she had a serious amount of face surgery. The only way to explain her speech.
10(8?)(How drunk are you right now?) Nostalgia. Showing even a self proclaimed master can still learn?
11. Trying to say people are the real power behind a religion not the texts. I think.
12. And why was his chambers set up like a 70's disco?
13. Bot have decision making capabilities. They would choose to not commit suicide...I guess.
14. I'm holing out hope that EP9 will be a good movie.

My own rant. Snopes is the thinnest evil boss of all time. Where did he come from? Why do we care about him living or dying? He didn't do anything discernibly evil or good. He's Darth Maul all over again. Super strong evil guy with no story who gets cut in half by not paying attention. He was clearly 100 times stronger than the people who killed him. Bah.

It's a good movie, but not great.

[red]

Why were the bombers in the beginning so fucking slow, and how do bombs “drop” in space?

The whole Finn Asian girl casino thing was a giant wast of space and time. Somehow this chick falls so insanely in love with a guy she’s nevertheless met before in a matter of hours and risks her life to stop him from giving his life to protect everyone else

It’s like the director made this movie for teenage girls. Is this the same guy that did the twilight series?

[3irty1]

Star Wars has never had the sci:fi ratio that fans would prefer which seems especially egregious in a market place with things like Westworld and Black Mirror. But fans are already fans so fuck em. There is a money tree to shake and the new films are very much about growing rather than deepening the brand. Or at least it seems that way with the coalition of women and minorities vs the evil white guys. Modern audiences lack the imagination to connect with characters that do not share an identity.

That said, there are things I liked. I actually enjoyed what they did with Rey's parents. There was no satisfying or believable way to resolve that even though its clearly what we're supposed to talk about after Force Awakens. Her confusing mirror cave scene seemed to me just a newfangled version of Luke's experience in the Dagobah cave. I enjoyed Force Awakens, but a lot of folks thought it was too cheap a knock off of A New Hope. Those same people seemed to like this one but I don't see how its any less of a ripoff of Empire Strikes Back. It starts and ends with the Rebellion running for its life. Hoth, Cloud City, and Dagobah all have their analogs and much of those scenes seemed to serve no purpose but to harken back to glory days. I fully expected the codebreaker they were seeking on the casino cloud city to be Lando. They really wasted an opportunity to kill off Leia.

What the series lacks is a great villain which was the true strength of the old films. Even the prequels got to ride a little bit of Vader's star in this sense. Despite the supersaturation of comic relief and cheesy dialog those movies had, the villains were still good: Palpatine, corrupt government, and the Vader origin story. Kylo Ren just isn't scary and with Poe Dameron cracking wise at him in ways nobody would have ever talked to Vader in the first scene of Awakens, this was clearly never the plan. I think a decent villain can still be salvaged actually with Snoke. As Zool mentioned he's thin, suspiciously thin. My theory is that he's Palpatine's old master referred to as Darth Plagueis in the prequels. His shtick if you remember was that he figured out how to stop people from dying with the force which was part of Palpatine's sales pitch to Anakin. According to Palpatine, he murdered Plagueis in his sleep and it was ironic that he couldn't save his own life with that ability. Well maybe he could. Maybe that's how he got the gnarly scar on his face. Maybe he'll glue himself back together for the next film too. At this point the Force has powercreeped so much it can explain away just about anything. Hell now that Force projection is a thing maybe Snoke wasn't even in the room.

My only other prediction is that Rey will be revealed somehow, maybe with something in the Jedi books, to be the true "chosen one" the Jedi prophesied Anakin to be. He was similarly polymathic as a mechanic, pilot, and Jedi who came from "nothing." Something is needed to explain why she's so effortlessly competent.

I think the next one can fill in the holes of this new trilogy but I'm more looking forward to the standalone spinoff movies.

[mmmdk]

I really liked.

I loved the last battle with the red salt under the white sand.

I thought the mirror scene with Rey was really dumb.

Still don’t know what to think about Yodi destroying the Jedi stuff.

For the most part I liked it. Everything with Luke, Rey & Kylo Ren was awesome. My trouble is the narrative. The b-story with Finn & Rose was really weak and with political comments; I didn't like that in a SW movie. The action scenes were great and I must conclude that Holdo is the wortst leader in the history of Star Wars - man, she blew it but redeemed herself with a very late, almost too late sacrifice.

I rate the Star Wars moviesas such:

Masterpieces:

The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope

Great Star Wars movies:

Rogue One (oh yeah)
The Force Awakens
The Return of the Jedi

Good SW movies:

The Last Jedi
The Return of the Sith

Mediocre Star Wars:

Attack of the Clones

Bad Star Wars:

The Phantom menace (except for lightsaber duels)

[mraynrand]

Star Wars has never had the sci:fi ratio that fans would prefer which seems especially egregious in a market place with things like Westworld and Black Mirror. But fans are already fans so fuck em. There is a money tree to shake and the new films are very much about growing rather than deepening the brand. Or at least it seems that way with the coalition of women and minorities vs the evil white guys. Modern audiences lack the imagination to connect with characters that do not share an identity.

That said, there are things I liked. I actually enjoyed what they did with Rey's parents. There was no satisfying or believable way to resolve that even though its clearly what we're supposed to talk about after Force Awakens. Her confusing mirror cave scene seemed to me just a newfangled version of Luke's experience in the Dagobah cave. I enjoyed Force Awakens, but a lot of folks thought it was too cheap a knock off of A New Hope. Those same people seemed to like this one but I don't see how its any less of a ripoff of Empire Strikes Back. It starts and ends with the Rebellion running for its life. Hoth, Cloud City, and Dagobah all have their analogs and much of those scenes seemed to serve no purpose but to harken back to glory days. I fully expected the codebreaker they were seeking on the casino cloud city to be Lando. They really wasted an opportunity to kill off Leia.

What the series lacks is a great villain which was the true strength of the old films. Even the prequels got to ride a little bit of Vader's star in this sense. Despite the supersaturation of comic relief and cheesy dialog those movies had, the villains were still good: Palpatine, corrupt government, and the Vader origin story. Kylo Ren just isn't scary and with Poe Dameron cracking wise at him in ways nobody would have ever talked to Vader in the first scene of Awakens, this was clearly never the plan. I think a decent villain can still be salvaged actually with Snoke. As Zool mentioned he's thin, suspiciously thin. My theory is that he's Palpatine's old master referred to as Darth Plagueis in the prequels. His shtick if you remember was that he figured out how to stop people from dying with the force which was part of Palpatine's sales pitch to Anakin. According to Palpatine, he murdered Plagueis in his sleep and it was ironic that he couldn't save his own life with that ability. Well maybe he could. Maybe that's how he got the gnarly scar on his face. Maybe he'll glue himself back together for the next film too. At this point the Force has powercreeped so much it can explain away just about anything. Hell now that Force projection is a thing maybe Snoke wasn't even in the room.

My only other prediction is that Rey will be revealed somehow, maybe with something in the Jedi books, to be the true "chosen one" the Jedi prophesied Anakin to be. He was similarly polymathic as a mechanic, pilot, and Jedi who came from "nothing." Something is needed to explain why she's so effortlessly competent.

I think the next one can fill in the holes of this new trilogy but I'm more looking forward to the standalone spinoff movies.

your attempt to make sense of this piece of shit movie is far more interesting than the movie.

[Deputy Nutz]

Were any of the movies any good? The dialog and the writing was never the strongest. The issue is a bunch of middle age fucks fell in love with the first 3 movies when they were just finishing up their wetting the bed stage of adolescence and now they are critiquing the current Star Wars with their adult brain. The coolest thing about Star Wars was the special effects, and this movie was quite powerful in that regard.

The number one issue in this series, and it has already been said is that Kylo Ren is not a super villain. I don't like that the writers invented Snoke out of thin air, with no mention of him being a Sith Lord. The story lines have already been written in the Star Wars fiction series of books. No reason to just invent shitty villains. Especially Villains that can't hold a candle to Luke's control of the force. Bullshit that Kylo Ren brought a hut down on Luke, doesn't happen.

As I sat in the theater I was entertained by the movie, but like all other assholes I start pulling the movie apart afterwards and deflate the movie.

[mraynrand]

I disagree about episodes 4-6 being nostalgia-driven. At the time, they were spectacular because of their novelty and their story lines. The themes are simple and capture the imagination. The characters are interesting, accessible, relatable.

Ep. 4 - Underdog with emerging powers goes up against impossible odds and wins. Precocious, petulant Princess is someone to fight for - someone to go into the lions den to rescue. Rogue pilot has a heart of gold, but delights us with his "I don't have to take shit from anyone" attitude. Main character is like us - wants a better life, is willing to help, but nervous and inexperienced. Cute and annoying robot side-kicks have decent human traits of loyalty and earnestness, essential for victory. Walking carpet and an array of other characters are delightful and interesting. Opposition is pure evil - gloats about weaponry, manipulates, assaults, and tortures enemies - casually blows up a planet - a frickin' planet. Ultimate evil lair is the size of a small moon. Holy crap!

Ep. 5 - same characters on the run, facing impossible odds. Powers of protagonist explained, expanded, harnessed by a wise rodent. Nemesis emerges in all his evil glory and exposes internal flaws and contradictions in protagonist. Main characters grow and reveal loves and nobility.

Ep. 6 Final battle. Incest revealed - ew. Unexpected allies thwart the carefully planned machinations of supreme evil lord, just when all seems lost. Ultimate evil is defeated by Evil turned good, on the knife-edge of the faith of a loyal, incorruptible son. Love wins. Bears hug. Dead people re-appear as holograms via cheap LCD projector.

Now try to do the same for the other episodes.

[3irty1]

Masterpieces:

The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope

Great Star Wars movies:

Rogue One (oh yeah)
The Force Awakens
The Return of the Jedi

Good SW movies:

The Last Jedi
The Return of the Sith

Mediocre Star Wars:

Attack of the Clones

Bad Star Wars:

The Phantom menace (except for lightsaber duels)

I mean I have to grade these on a curve, because a bad star wars movie is still a good movie. Here's my ranking:

1 Empire Strikes Back
2 New Hope
3 Return of the Jedi
4 Force Awakens
5 Phantom Menace
6 The Return of the Sith
7 Rogue One
8 The Last Jedi
9 Attack of the Clones

Not a popular order so I'll justify some. Attack of the Clones is the worst Star Wars because Hayden Christensen and that dialog annoys me far more than Jar Jar Binks ever could the whole thing could have been replaced with the yellow text at the beginning of episode III. Episode 1 has the best sound track, the best lightsaber fight, and an exceptional action scene (podrace). Lots of original stuff was created. I didn't care about anything that happened to anyone in Rogue One. I thought the funny droid was funny but really it seemed like a long winded excuse to make that awesome Vader Scene at the end.

[Zool]

Pod racing alone made Ep 1 suck. It was about 30 minutes of screen time for what? To show the kid was a good pilot and mechanic? Could have been done in 5 minutes.

I’m curious why you rank Rogue One so low? It’s pretty universally well liked by even non-Star Wars fans.

Seriously Pod racing. Opening day in the theater I was annoyed through that whole scene. Theres not a single thing in EP 1 that drives the saga forward. They introduce a super fighting with who ends up dying to an apprentice because he wasn’t paying attention? We have tons of political drama, and a trade federation who blocks trade. That whole movie is a jumble of partial plots that are all terrible.

Gungans van breath under water, yet they live in bubbles. Evolution really ducked that one up.
A ridiculously forced relationship with the Naboo that made no sense. They never described why they were adversaries.
Qui Gon Jin is a Jedi master bound to a code that he rarely follows. He cheated at dice, used mind powers to alter decisions. Then he died.
Padme was a bad character too. And the 6 year old falls in love with her? What 6 year old has that sort of thought process?
Midichlorians? Really? Blood parasites give you force? Can they be injected? Can I eat a daily vitamin to boost my force?

EP 1 is a bad movie by any measure of a movie. Acting, plot, pacing, direction, cohesion. It felt like a movie to sell toys to kids.

[Zool]

Also the Vader scene at the end of Rogue One was written and filmed at the last minute.

[red]

Also the Vader scene at the end of Rogue One was written and filmed at the last minute.

that one scene, to me, made up for the entire prequel trilogy

lucas wanted to make anakin out to be the most bad ass person to ever live, instead he made him out to be a douche bag little pussy

rogue one fixed that

i would go

empire
new hope
rogue one
force awakens
jedi
episode 3
attack of the clones
episode 1 shitshow

and even though they are cartoons, the clone wars series and rebels are both really good

[mraynrand]

1 Empire Strikes Back
2 New Hope
3 Return of the Jedi
4 Rogue One

This is my list. Rogue One is a better movie in many respects than 'Return' but I ranked it lower because of 1) Emperor and 2) completion of the trilogy. The prequels collectively are an abomination.

[mraynrand]

Also the Vader scene at the end of Rogue One was written and filmed at the last minute.

It was the weakest scene in the movie