Spinning, Spinning, Spinning: Ted's the Scapegoat, Mike's the Tough Guy in Charge

[Fritz]

I am probably not starting anything new, but I have noticed we're all so focused on who the next GM will be that we don't seem to have a thread that looks at the meta-story in all this. Partly because TT's so quiet (nobody's heard a word from the guy, I don't think), it's been easy for the JSO schlock jocks to fall back into their simplistic analysis.

Not only have we gone back to the "Ted never signed free agents" motif (this cropped up in a recent Silverstein or Daugherty article), now Ted is being painted as, minimally, aged by the job, and by those more enthusiastic posters, as a doddering, demented, blank-eyed shell.

Certainly this 7 - 9 season has revealed major flaws in the team and perhaps the organization. It does seem that the Vikes have done a better job drafting defensive talent than TT has the last few years. Without Rodgers, this team sure looked and played like a 3 - 8 unit. It was apparent there was no effective pass rush, and that the team lacked depth at the corner position. The receiver group lacks speed. (Though most fans liked the running backs TT drafted last year.)

However, coaching may also have played a role; thus Capers's demise. When players like Josh Jones and Montravius Adams are raved about for their natural ability in training camp, and then neither one seems to make any progress on the field, they're either way immature or not well-coached. Why Clinton-Dix seemed to lose his head in his ass is a complete mystery; none the writers seem to have investigated the reasons for this at all. How does a young player nearing a contract year go from All-Pro or near All-Pro to uninterested schlump? Then there's the infamous "communication issues" that have plagued this defense for years, particularly on the back end (that's why so many of us are nervous that Whitt or Perry might be hired as DC).

On the offensive side, heads, too, have rolled. Bennett, Van Pelt, Getsy leaving for another job, and probably I'm forgetting a couple.

And here I'll channel Woody: What about 'the head coach'?? Mike McCarthy is being painted as demanding, wanting more out of the next GM, sitting in on interviews, firing coaches, telling Damarious Randall to 'shut it,' and on and on.

But isn't this guy supposed to be the quarterback whisperer? Sure, he can claim credit for developing Aaron Rodgers, but hasn't he failed miserably with Hundley? That guy had the opportunity to watch and learn and practice and grow for two years - two years, a lifetime in the NFL! - and he wasn't simply "meh" or mediocre, he was lousy. Lousy. After being developed for two years by the head coach, the QB guru.

It was sad to see how much this team appears to have been a one-man show for some time now. Since McGinn's not-prophetic article a few years ago about how the Packers were built to survive a Rodgers injury (those of you with short memories can predict what happened anyway: Rodges proceeded to get hurt, and the Packers proceeded to suck), it's becoming worse and worse. This team was flat-out awful.

So even though I've been an ardent TT supporter, I agree it's time for a change there. But this scapegoating of him seems ridiculous. The writer of the aforementioned TT piece mentioned Taysom Hill as an example of Ted's failure. Seriously? The one article I read about the guy is that he was playing special teams for the Saints. If you have a future as an NFL QB, you're not playing special teams. What an idiotic example. all in all, Thompson was a very good GM. It's not easy to keep success going. Yes, he seemed to have faltered the last few years, but he wasn't some Cleveland Browns numbnut or Matt Millen clone.

I also think MM is getting out of all this too easy. He wants more from a GM, and he fires a bunch of assistant coaches, but where's his accountability? He trained Hundley for over two years, insisted Hundley was the guy, and came out with wildly inconsistent game plans for a quarterback he's supposed to know by now. First he's going to just run and run and run, then suddenly in one game he wants Hundley to come out throwing. And then after the season Hundley says he should have been better prepared??? Hmmm. Who's in charge of that, I wonder?

If you are a member of the Green Bay Packers organization, and you're anywhere near Mike McCarthy and you see a bus coming down the street, you'd better run the hell away from Mike.

[pbmax]

Go Fritz Go. Repped.

[red]

great rant fritz

i think i pretty much agree, i'm having trouble focusing right now, but it seemed spot on IMO

[Fritz]

I also don't quite understand why Murphy cannot see the similarities to other situations in which someone like, say, Martha Ford, really likes a coach, like, say, Jim Caldwell, so when she hires a new GM, one of the conditions is that she'd, you know, rather not see Caldwell fired. So the GM's hands are tied, especially when the guy goes 9 - 7 in Detroit (that's like 11 - 5 in Green Bay). Then he has to give the guy an extension, only to see the Leos limp to an 8 - 8 record despite Stafford being healthy for all sixteen games, and then he has to can Caldwell and start again.

If you're going to start over, then start over. The only way I can understand how Murphy is doing things in such a half-assed way is if he talked to Aaron Rodgers and heard from him that McCarthy really, really ought to stay - that Aaron didn't want to start over with a new coach.

Even then, it's a bit hard to understand. If Rodgers really does intend to play for another five or six years, he ought to know MM won't be around that long, and that now's the time for a new start.

[Joemailman]

If you're going to start over, then start over. The only way I can understand how Murphy is doing things in such a half-assed way is if he talked to Aaron Rodgers and heard from him that McCarthy really, really ought to stay - that Aaron didn't want to start over with a new coach.

Murphy's not looking to start over. He has the best player in the NFL. You don't start over when you have that. You try to build around him.

Even then, it's a bit hard to understand. If Rodgers really does intend to play for another five or six years, he ought to know MM won't be around that long, and that now's the time for a new start.

Why would Rodgers know McCarthy won't be around for another 6 years? McCarthy is still only 54 years old. He could coach until he's 60.

[red]

Murphy's not looking to start over. He has the best player in the NFL. You don't start over when you have that. You try to build around him.



Why would Rodgers know McCarthy won't be around for another 6 years? McCarthy is still only 54 years old. He could coach until he's 60.

if fat mike is around for another 6 years then a-rod will retire having only won 1 super bowl, and we will have almost completely wasted not 1 but 2 of the greatest QB's in nfl history

[woodbuck27]

I also don't quite understand why Murphy cannot see the similarities to other situations in which someone like, say, Martha Ford, really likes a coach, like, say, Jim Caldwell, so when she hires a new GM, one of the conditions is that she'd, you know, rather not see Caldwell fired. So the GM's hands are tied, especially when the guy goes 9 - 7 in Detroit (that's like 11 - 5 in Green Bay). Then he has to give the guy an extension, only to see the Leos limp to an 8 - 8 record despite Stafford being healthy for all sixteen games, and then he has to can Caldwell and start again.

If you're going to start over, then start over. The only way I can understand how Murphy is doing things in such a half-assed way is if he talked to Aaron Rodgers and heard from him that McCarthy really, really ought to stay - that Aaron didn't want to start over with a new coach.

Even then, it's a bit hard to understand. If Rodgers really does intend to play for another five or six years, he ought to know MM won't be around that long, and that now's the time for a new start.

Comments woodbuck27:

On A) Mike MCCarthy and B) Aaron Rodgers and any influence by one of them or both on Mark Murphy and his choice for the new Packer GM:

A) * With the absolute all over the Map paranoia *, that Packer ' still HC ' Mike McCarthy has demonstrated.

With every head scratching move MM makes, and the ** dismissing ** of members of his Coaching staff. The obvious backstabbing 'my skin is first', always comes first, bad rep handle Mike McCarthy deserves, and will in all likelihood forever now, have to live with as that spreads around the NFL.

* MM isn't in the play and having much influence on Packer President and CEO Mark Murphy's hunt and difficult selection of the new Packer GM. I mean really, what Man in his right mind would seriously ask MM for advice and not risk his spittal all over your face.

** the polite choice of words... and for clear honesty, substitute absolute TRUTH and the words " throwing under the bus " .

Is Aaron Rodgers in the play and Mark Murphy's decision?

Should he or Mike McCarthy be meddling in this very important decision? If I was Mark Murphy I'd listen to them without much comment and at the same time feel sorry for his or their desperation. Trying to exert influence is clearly meddling in an area that neither is qualified to meddle in.

Is anyone so far learning that Mark Murphy is actually in a PANIC state and his hunt for the next Packer GM? I'm not reading anything like that. I'm reading a whole lot of stuff.

So far the only error has been NOT Firing Mike McCarthy and especially so as he continues to embarrass himself and the good reputation of the Green Bay Packers Organization.

Errors:

The first order of business had to be to ASAP to get the very best MAN installed as the new Packer GM. Mark Murphy needed to place everything else on a temporary R.E.L.A.X. mode.

MM had to be handcuffed and making any decision to restore his own egocentric comfort zone. Get that 'Fit...Fit...Fit...unfit overweight and stressed out lump of a man and his wife (NO..she likely needs a break all by herself), on a plane to some Health Resort in Arizona.

As a minimum precaution and Mike McCarthy.... Don't the Packer Medical People have 'a PILL they can give him to calm him the 'H' down? That poor fella is going to explode !



Isn't Aaron Rodgers (as rumoured) too busy dating Danica Patrick and having a good time; to get involved in this total Packer Canadian Satire Comedy Material Sideshow Mess. Right now, I'm imagining the good and hopeful comedy people from 'Saturday Night LIVE; dreaming that they could work up a skit and what's going on and the future...' THE FUTURE TODAY !! May GOD Help Us All ', of the Green Bay Packers.

https://nypost.com/2018/01/05/danica...omance-rumors/




GO PACK GO !

[gbgary]

ok...of all the people responsible for the mess we saw on the field this year TT was the most responsible. there's no way that can be argued. scapegoat implies someone who was blameless gets all the blame. that just isn't the case here. MM reminded everyone in his presser that the standard in Green Bay is winning championships. he asked if everything possible was being done to do that. he implied the answer is no. he wasn't given the roster he needed to do it. that's ALL on TT.

[Smidgeon]

I also think you're looking at this the right way. Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

However, the only plausible scenario that might run counter to this is that M3 trusted the development of Hundley and preparing the offensive game plan to his QB coach and offensive coordinator. Both of them are gone. Perhaps his "He's our guy" rant at the podium is because he's long been known to not throw people under the bus unless he feels it's the best way to teach a guy (and he uses it very sparingly and seemingly never for coaches).

There's so much going on here that we don't know and will never know. We can only speculate based on opinions of people close to the team while ignoring whatever random drivel Woody comes up with.

[George Cumby]

I also think you're looking at this the right way. Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

However, the only plausible scenario that might run counter to this is that M3 trusted the development of Hundley and preparing the offensive game plan to his QB coach and offensive coordinator. Both of them are gone. Perhaps his "He's our guy" rant at the podium is because he's long been known to not throw people under the bus unless he feels it's the best way to teach a guy (and he uses it very sparingly and seemingly never for coaches).

There's so much going on here that we don't know and will never know. We can only speculate based on opinions of people close to the team while ignoring whatever random drivel Woody comes up with.

QFT

In the absence of information, people will make shit up, see: McGinn and Woody.

We know next to nothing of what really transpired, we know very little about the personalities, the dynamics or the thought processes behind the decisions.

I trust it was the right decision to have Ted step down. I hope keeping M3 was the right decision. I hope that Murphy is competent and will make the right call.

If not, then welcome to the rest of the NFL, it's been a great run.

[Tony Oday]

Dom Capers was the reason the d is bad. There is talent on the D. You watch next year we are top 10 in defense and Super Bowl winners.

[red]

Dom Capers was the reason the d is bad. There is talent on the D. You watch next year we are top 10 in defense and Super Bowl winners.

10 draft picks in the top 2 rounds over the last 6 years i believe

there should be plenty of talent there

but just in case, the new guy should add a few more free agents

[texaspackerbacker]

Dom Capers was the reason the d is bad. There is talent on the D. You watch next year we are top 10 in defense and Super Bowl winners.

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

[woodbuck27]

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

Looking for the perfect 'fit'.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

The problem, of course, is when young and inexperienced players can't or won't execute Capers' "schemes, trickery and compensation" on Sunday afternoon. How about a DC who believes in KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)?

[Smidgeon]

The problem, of course, is when young and inexperienced players can't or won't execute Capers' "schemes, trickery and compensation" on Sunday afternoon. How about a DC who believes in KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)?

If they can't grasp it, why are they in the NFL? There's more here than simple complexity.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If they can't grasp it, why are they in the NFL? There's more here than simple complexity.

I'm listening...

[pbmax]

If they can't grasp it, why are they in the NFL? There's more here than simple complexity.

Its a great question. And the fact that the D line coach and LB coach were let go doesn't answer the question about whether the assistants were part of the problem (especially in the backend). You also need to wonder about coach input about personnel decisions. Should Hyde and Hayward been more prized than they were? Hayward didn't start and Hyde was played out of position.

But there is a complexity with the Capers D that has long been acknowledged. He and Le Beau both preferred to have vets out there. Rather than simplify, they wanted to add rules to existing schemes to deal with new threats from the offense.

And this defense came together in 1992 or so. It was born of concepts that go back to Jim Mora and the old AFC 3-4. Its been modified heavily.

Capers moved to preferring (not sure whether this was him or Ted's talent) man coverage compared to Le Beau's zone.

But there is no question the D was designed to feature a full complement of adjustments, rules and techniques that required detailed understanding. It was not like the design of college D or Jimmy Johnson's D where it was simple and needed to be played fast.

However, somehow Gregg Williams, Jim Johnson (Philly D) and the Schwartz run some complex blitzes and coverages make it work. I don't think Dom was so far outside the norm that it couldn't work, but it made life tough for rooks (see early Nick Collins or Josh Jones).

[Tony Oday]

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

Think idiot is strong Guys from our team go somewhere else and excel, did they just get good or did the new coach actually coach them. We have the raw talent on d just magically nobody knows what the hell is going on.

[Pugger]

Think idiot is strong Guys from our team go somewhere else and excel, did they just get good or did the new coach actually coach them. We have the raw talent on d just magically nobody knows what the hell is going on.

Well, hopefully all that will change with a new DC. It can't get much worse...