Spinning, Spinning, Spinning: Ted's the Scapegoat, Mike's the Tough Guy in Charge

[Zool]

Name another flying mammal. See, bats are awesome. And around here, they eat their weight in mosquitos daily. That alone makes them awesome.


*some facts in this post might be made up

[Rastak]

Name another flying mammal. See, bats are awesome. And around here, they eat their weight in mosquitos daily. That alone makes them awesome.


*some facts in this post might be made up

They always have scarred the shit out of me....flying mice essentially.

[woodbuck27]

I disagree that bats are bland. They are a vibrant and fascinating mammal.

I find it fascinating how so many Packerrats are 'bang on' and seeing typos and being Spelling Nazi's; yet can't (again) see 'the forest for the trees', and all things correct and Packer Nation moving forward.

You know .......... 'the right fit'.

Right ... bats are hardly 'bland' their unfortunately simply becoming, where I come from, too 'rare'.

[gbgary]

Name another flying mammal.

Rocket J Squirrel...

[woodbuck27]

Name another flying mammal. See, bats are awesome. And around here, they eat their weight in mosquitos daily. That alone makes them awesome.


*some facts in this post might be made up

" Name another flying mammal." Zool


Sunda flying lemur

[texaspackerbacker]

Dom Capers was the reason the d is bad. There is talent on the D. You watch next year we are top 10 in defense and Super Bowl winners.

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

[woodbuck27]

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

Looking for the perfect 'fit'.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

The problem, of course, is when young and inexperienced players can't or won't execute Capers' "schemes, trickery and compensation" on Sunday afternoon. How about a DC who believes in KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)?

[Tony Oday]

Tony, I wouldn't ever call anybody an idiot that I agree with so much in political threads, but you are dead wrong in what you say here.

The reason for shaky defense OF COURSE was piss poor personnel, courtesy of Ted Thompson. Capers mitigated that situation to a great extent with his schemes, trickery, and compensation. Sometimes, the quality of personnel problem was just too much to compensate for, though.

I just hope whoever comes next is of a similar mindset and almost as good a D Corrdinator as Capers.

Think idiot is strong Guys from our team go somewhere else and excel, did they just get good or did the new coach actually coach them. We have the raw talent on d just magically nobody knows what the hell is going on.

[Pugger]

Think idiot is strong Guys from our team go somewhere else and excel, did they just get good or did the new coach actually coach them. We have the raw talent on d just magically nobody knows what the hell is going on.

Well, hopefully all that will change with a new DC. It can't get much worse...

[Smidgeon]

The problem, of course, is when young and inexperienced players can't or won't execute Capers' "schemes, trickery and compensation" on Sunday afternoon. How about a DC who believes in KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)?

If they can't grasp it, why are they in the NFL? There's more here than simple complexity.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If they can't grasp it, why are they in the NFL? There's more here than simple complexity.

I'm listening...

[Joemailman]

I thought this year was the double whammy. Opposing offenses had figured out the Packers defense, but some of the Packers defenders hadn't. You can't go totally simple, or sophisticated NFL offenses will pick it apart.

There has to be a happy medium between


and

[Pugger]

I thought this year was the double whammy. Opposing offenses had figured out the Packers defense, but some of the Packers defenders hadn't. You can't go totally simple, or sophisticated NFL offenses will pick it apart.

There has to be a happy medium between


and

[mraynrand]

I find it fascinating how so many Packerrats are 'bang on' and seeing typos and being Spelling Nazi's; yet can't (again) see 'the forest for the trees', and all things correct and Packer Nation moving forward.

You know .......... 'the right fit'.

Right ... bats are hardly 'bland' their unfortunately simply becoming, where I come from, too 'rare'.

your bats

[George Cumby]

I also think you're looking at this the right way. Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

However, the only plausible scenario that might run counter to this is that M3 trusted the development of Hundley and preparing the offensive game plan to his QB coach and offensive coordinator. Both of them are gone. Perhaps his "He's our guy" rant at the podium is because he's long been known to not throw people under the bus unless he feels it's the best way to teach a guy (and he uses it very sparingly and seemingly never for coaches).

There's so much going on here that we don't know and will never know. We can only speculate based on opinions of people close to the team while ignoring whatever random drivel Woody comes up with.

QFT

In the absence of information, people will make shit up, see: McGinn and Woody.

We know next to nothing of what really transpired, we know very little about the personalities, the dynamics or the thought processes behind the decisions.

I trust it was the right decision to have Ted step down. I hope keeping M3 was the right decision. I hope that Murphy is competent and will make the right call.

If not, then welcome to the rest of the NFL, it's been a great run.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I thought this year was the double whammy. Opposing offenses had figured out the Packers defense, but some of the Packers defenders hadn't. You can't go totally simple, or sophisticated NFL offenses will pick it apart.

There has to be a happy medium between


and

I'd error on the side of KISS. Same for the offense. When it takes WR's two or three years to learn what MM and ARod expect them to know, you make yourself vulnerable when injuries occur. Or when veterans leave for FAgency and their replacements are greener than grass. Plus, the more complicated the system, the harder it becomes to plug in FA subsitutes mid-season. We don't need a system that favors Wonderlic scores over football instincts, IMO.

[pbmax]

Think idiot is strong Guys from our team go somewhere else and excel, did they just get good or did the new coach actually coach them. We have the raw talent on d just magically nobody knows what the hell is going on.

Beside Hyde and Hayward, who do you mean? Did you see Zombo get run out of a play by Mariota last night?

Hyde and Hayward both played well here. Hyde was a safety and Hayward a corner who could dominate in zone. They weren't terrible when not playing to their strengths either. Hyde took a lot of grief as a slot CB allowing passes across the middle, but trail coverage on a crossing route or TE coverage were problems in this D before he got here. His lack of speed did not help him solve it but he played the position wisely and did make some plays.

Since Hyde was not going to start at safety for Dom and Hayward was not a lock for the #2 CB job, Ted did not pay either like a well compensated starter. There was also the question of both contributing to some terrible defenses. Put on better defense and playing their natural spot, both excelled, though I am still no sold on Hyde as an All Pro, that defense he is on fell down hard in the second half of the season.

So either the DC adjusts the scheme and incorporates the talent or the GM gets new players when they are no longer cheap.

Dom didn't start them and Ted wasn't going to sign FAs just so they fit the open peg in Doms defense. Ergo, trouble.

The problem here is that no one ever squared this circle, and that is the fault of the organization. And McCarthy, who fired Capers only after a year that would make almost any move seem wise, has the same coordination question to answer now with two new guys.

[pbmax]

If they can't grasp it, why are they in the NFL? There's more here than simple complexity.

Its a great question. And the fact that the D line coach and LB coach were let go doesn't answer the question about whether the assistants were part of the problem (especially in the backend). You also need to wonder about coach input about personnel decisions. Should Hyde and Hayward been more prized than they were? Hayward didn't start and Hyde was played out of position.

But there is a complexity with the Capers D that has long been acknowledged. He and Le Beau both preferred to have vets out there. Rather than simplify, they wanted to add rules to existing schemes to deal with new threats from the offense.

And this defense came together in 1992 or so. It was born of concepts that go back to Jim Mora and the old AFC 3-4. Its been modified heavily.

Capers moved to preferring (not sure whether this was him or Ted's talent) man coverage compared to Le Beau's zone.

But there is no question the D was designed to feature a full complement of adjustments, rules and techniques that required detailed understanding. It was not like the design of college D or Jimmy Johnson's D where it was simple and needed to be played fast.

However, somehow Gregg Williams, Jim Johnson (Philly D) and the Schwartz run some complex blitzes and coverages make it work. I don't think Dom was so far outside the norm that it couldn't work, but it made life tough for rooks (see early Nick Collins or Josh Jones).