Mike Pettine

[pbmax]

you at least need to have a back of some kind in the backfield to run play action. Duh. So a critical factor for the GBP is how often they go empty. Sorry, I have no numbers, but seems important for run game 'threat' and ability to fool the defense. But a always, the reason you pass all the time is because your guy/offense does it so well.

Michael Salfino @MichaelSalfino
We had play action stats for a long time. You could at least see that there was no correlation between play action success and running efficiency. And it’s been obvious for decades that there is no correlation between running well and passing well, period.

Defenses REALLY want to stop the run, often to their detriment on 1st and 2nd down. As an example, I give you the phantom play action.

Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.

[mraynrand]

Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.

I remember this! That's pretty funny. It's like ancestral, collective unconscious NFL memory!

[swede]

I remember this! That's pretty funny. It's like ancestral, collective unconscious NFL memory!

Clan of the '85 Bears

[Fritz]

Michael Salfino @MichaelSalfino
We had play action stats for a long time. You could at least see that there was no correlation between play action success and running efficiency. And it’s been obvious for decades that there is no correlation between running well and passing well, period.

Defenses REALLY want to stop the run, often to their detriment on 1st and 2nd down. As an example, I give you the phantom play action.

Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.

My wife gets jealous when I make a pass at a picture of Drew Barrymore.

[swede]

My wife gets jealous when I make a pass at a picture of Drew Barrymore.

Stop taping it to the back of her head.

[bobblehead]

Michael Salfino @MichaelSalfino
We had play action stats for a long time. You could at least see that there was no correlation between play action success and running efficiency. And it’s been obvious for decades that there is no correlation between running well and passing well, period.

Defenses REALLY want to stop the run, often to their detriment on 1st and 2nd down. As an example, I give you the phantom play action.

Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.

And again, that is my point. I'm not just whining that we don't run well, I'm whining that we don't even TRY to run too often.

[bobblehead]

you at least need to have a back of some kind in the backfield to run play action. Duh. So a critical factor for the GBP is how often they go empty. Sorry, I have no numbers, but seems important for run game 'threat' and ability to fool the defense. But a always, the reason you pass all the time is because your guy/offense does it so well.

But...there is more to an offense than scoring. Keeping your D off the field rested and the other teams O off the field and out of rhythm is nice. And even if you pass well, if you give the threat of running when they sell out to stop the pass think of how much MORE effective it can be.

[mraynrand]

But...there is more to an offense than scoring. Keeping your D off the field rested and the other teams O off the field and out of rhythm is nice. And even if you pass well, if you give the threat of running when they sell out to stop the pass think of how much MORE effective it can be.

Of course, there are offenses that use the pass as effectively as a run to work the clock. The Packers put the ball in Rodgers' hands because he's that good. Unless the line is total crap, and the defense either is good enough to generate instant pass rush, on average, having Rodgers pass the ball is a better choice than handing it off. Especially when you draft linemen to pass pro. The run is a change of pace, a way to keep the defense honest. You run just enough so that the defense has to be honest.

There are a few games I recall where Packer opponents basically keyed on pass defense and destroyed the Packers. But those defenses (Giants, Arizona, Seattle) could reasonably defense the run without keying on it at all.

[bobblehead]

If I ran Stubby's offense, I would run 25% of the time in non-end of half/game scenarios. Play action pass 50%, shotgun pass 20%, shotgun run 5%.

Graham Barfield @GrahamBarfield
New #Titans OC Matt LaFleur has been attached to the two most play-action heavy teams in 2017 as LAR OC (29% of pass plays were PA) and in 2016 as ATL QB Coach (28%). Marcus Mariota led all QBs in YPA on play-action passes (11.1) in 2017, per PFF.

Russell Hudson @rhud1979
You have to run the rock (and run it well) well for play action to work, right?

Graham Barfield @GrahamBarfield
This is a common myth.
Play-action has little to do with success running the ball, and everything to do with deceiving the defense. Play-action was very effective for teams like SEA last year, who had zero consistency running. Balance is overrated.

Brian Burke @bburkeESPN
Can't agree more. Been saying this forever.

Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
We've written about this numerous times and have another guest column on the subject coming from @guga31bb after the Super Bowl.

Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
What matters is not how well you run. What matters is only that you run enough to make the deception of running believeable.

Brian Burke @bburkeESPN
Disagree slightly here. Per game theory, you only need the credible threat of running. PA would work just fine on the very first play of the season.

Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
Right, PA would work fine on the first play of the season because there's an assumption that no team in the NFL runs 90% of the time.

And I'm not disagreeing. Part of the problem is we line up shotgun, semi empty backfield and rarely if ever run from that formation. You have to make the D believe that you might possibly run sometimes if the moon is out in broad daylight. Stubby does not like the run and everyone knows it. We don't run enough play action to fool anyone. Our RB line up to pass block and we don't run enough screens. End result is D pins the ears back and floods the zones. Could you imagine the success play action would have if we ran the ball like we did when Hundley was QB.

[pbmax]

http://www.wbay.com/content/news/Mik...472170413.html

Here's what he said during his chat with Dave:

MIKE PETTINE

"I love him. I absolutely love him. He's a really angry, no BS Jersey dude. He's going to hurt some people's feelings. and we need that. I'm excited to get to work with him. And he's excited. He's going to get after you.

"I met with him. We talked. He's definitely the kind of guy that we want, the kind of guy that we need. I'm going to say he's going to do really great things for us. And he already is. I'm excited. I can't wait to go back.

"We've always had the pieces, and now he's ready to put them together. He just has the attitude we've been missing. We've been missing it. He has it. He's ready to bring it out. He told me that himself. It's going to be an interesting film room with him. He's not afraid of holding guys accountable. And if you want to debate if you had a good play or not, he'll go right to the tape."

[pbmax]

Sometimes I forget that McCarthy likes to hire people who remind him of himself. Or perhaps more accurately, people who he feels like he knows already.

Pennsylvania roots

A native of Doylestown, Pa., Pettine got his start in coaching as a graduate assistant at the University of Pittsburgh in 1993-94 before serving as the head coach at North Penn High School Towamencin Township, Pa., and William Tennent High School in Warminster, Pa.



Read more: http://www.packers.com/news-and-even...#ixzz5AlYq8jiC

[Fritz]

Or her forehead. Depends on the position. Kinda like deciding where to play Clay Matthews.

[Joemailman]

Pettine places emphasis on inside pass rush. This goes back to his days as jets DC.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...-mike-pettine/

The Packers new defensive coordinator places a premium on rushing the passer from the inside.

“That’s where it starts. It starts up front. People talk about the exterior pass rush, I think the interior pass rush is as important or maybe potentially more important,” Pettine said Thursday. “If you can be dominant inside, I think that has a ripple effect throughout your defense.”

The idea stems from improvements made by offenses in terms of taking away edge pass-rush. Teams can always chip an edge rusher, assign double teams or slide protection one way or another, but a strong rusher from the inside is harder to take away. Almost always, at least one interior rusher will face a single blocker.

“It’s much easier to negate an edge pass rusher than it is an inside dominant guy. You can force offenses to block them one-on-one,” Pettine said. “Offenses have gotten very good at negating edge rushers.”

Pettine’s prioritization of the inside pass-rush was born out of years of working under Rex Ryan, who consistently used top draft picks on interior disruptors. The goal for any pass-rush is always to collapse the pocket around the quarterback, creating disrupted throwing lanes and throwing platforms. While edge rushers can turn the corner and disrupt quarterbacks, the quickest way to a collapsed pocket is right up the middle.

“It’s something I learned from Rex a long time ago,” Pettine said. “You have to have guys winning inside. Even if you have great edge rushers, great speed rush, if the pocket’s not collapsed, it’s a clean pocket to step up into. It’s paramount that you have guys that can win inside.”

[Maxie the Taxi]

Pettine places emphasis on inside pass rush. This goes back to his days as jets DC.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...-mike-pettine/

My kind of guy! It's why I think they wanted to draft Da'Ron Payne or Vita Vea.

[woodbuck27]

Pettine places emphasis on inside pass rush. This goes back to his days as jets DC.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...-mike-pettine/

Here's what we could have had:

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/201...2018-nfl-draft

Buffalo Bills’ defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier is enamored by first-round pick Tremaine Edmunds

He was given a comparison similar to Tre’Davious White

By: Dylan Zadonowicz@DylanZadonowicz Jun 2, 2018, 9:00am EDT

[pbmax]

Here's what we could have had:

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/201...2018-nfl-draft

Buffalo Bills’ defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier is enamored by first-round pick Tremaine Edmunds

He was given a comparison similar to Tre’Davious White

By: Dylan Zadonowicz@DylanZadonowicz Jun 2, 2018, 9:00am EDT

Has Tremaine Edmunds picked off Aaron Rodgers yet?

[woodbuck27]

Has Tremaine Edmunds picked off Aaron Rodgers yet?

Specifically pbmax, what's your point and this Post?

Why as it is (and we don't know how any 2018 Prospect will make out and their leap from College Football to the NFL) is it the style here by many, to deride any prospect not a Packer?

Tremaine Edmunds is 'an extraordinary Prospect by all Reports', and based on a grade of 7.17 was drafted to be a Special Talent in the NFL by the Buffalo.

Only three Prospects in the 2018 DRAFT were graded higher than LBer Tremaine Edmunds and so far the Reports on him out of the Buffalo Bills OTA'a are extremely positive:

RB Saquon Barkley - PENN ST. Rnd 1, Pick 2 - New York Giants - Grade 7.45

Guard Quenton Nelson - NOTRE DAME Rnd 1, Pick 6 - Indianapolis Colts - Grade 7.34

DE Bradley Chubb - N.C. STATE - Rnd 1, Pick 5 - Denver Broncos - Grade 7.32

What is on record now and our new DC Mike Pettine who has clearly stated that he wants his Pass Rush to come from the inside rather than the EDGE. Even Mathematically Pettine makes sense. The shortest distance between two Points now comes into view and a Pass Rush. i

Let's look at this in simple terms or view it and a Triangle:

A triangle where the apexis represented by 'the Target'of the Pass Rush or the opposition's QB. The left and right hand points or the extreme points of the Defensive Base of the Triangle are two EDGE Rushers positioned off the LOS and Left and Right Tackles or more skilled OLman than the Guards.

Now look at the Inside Lber position and the Straight line Principle.

That ILber is closer to 'the Target or QB' than the two or one EDGE Rusher (s) out on the Base of the Triangle. The ILber has a shorter straight line to the Target as supported by what Packer DC Mike Pettine is describing as his preferred Pass Rush Scheme.

Imagine the Packer 'D' and a RARE talent like LB (ILB) Tremaine Edmunds and in the middle of that Baseline Packer Triangular 'D" and Pass Rush scheme and first down or 3rd and long.

How can you possibly with all your Football Technical knowledge; not wish the Packers hadn't drafted ILB Tremaine Edmunds GRADE 7.17, over a CB Jaire Alexander Graded at 6.03?

You know this pbmax:

There's 'a basic Rule' of Drafting Regimen. Basically and it's 'of course' not written in stone:

You Draft inside out and front to back.

When you see the chance of a Tremaine Edmunds with his outstanding Top Five Draft Grade of 7.17 possibly falling to you.

You don't trade all the way back from NO. 14 to New Orleans at what? NO. 27, (that in all likelihood) will return a late First Round Pick in the 2019 Draft.

The New Orleans Saints are a solid or Vegas Favourite to make the Playoffs this Season.

Toss away an opportunity for that Top Five Draft Tallent (Tremaine Edmunds or Derwin James) . Then panic and move all the way back to Pick NO. 18 and draft what they did, and in that process trade your Third Round Pick in the2018 Draft.

Rather:

You sit at NO. 14 and look for the likes of 'a Tremaine Edmunds' (Grade - SEVEN POINT SEVENTEEN) or Safety Derwin James ( Prospect Grade - 6.44) and Ranked as the Ninth Best Prospect by Grade, to 'fall to you'.

The Packers would have absolutely killed this Draft with at NO. 14 Drafting ILB Tremaine Edmunds and supporting perfectly Mike Pettine's needs and his Pass Rush Schemes; and exactly as they did; 'luck out' with a great Value Pick at Rd. 2 NO. 44 and snapping CB Joshua Jackson.

[pbmax]

Specifically pbmax, what's your point and this Post?

How can you possibly with all your Football Technical knowledge; not wish the Packers hadn't drafted ILB Tremaine Edmunds GRADE 7.17, over a CB Jaire Alexander Graded at 6.03?

I doubt you will address this because you have failed to respond before, but here is the crux of my argument over your point above.

The draft grades you cite above are:

1. Anonymous (can you tell me who did the scouting and evaluating at NFL.com?)
2. Contain unwarranted precision. NFL grades are often on an eight point scale. Two decimal points makes it look precise, but its just an average.
3. An average: And we don't know how many numbers are averaged. The more evaluators, especially if we know their track record, the more reliable this number would be.
4. On an unknown scale of magnitude. We have no information about how certain a 1.14 grade differential makes in the prospects chances to perform at a high level. Is this the difference between mid first and high second round?
5. Need. You say that Edmunds was the perfect fit for Pettine. Packers needs were OLB and CB. Explain the better fit here.

[mraynrand]

Let's look at this in simple terms or view it and a Triangle:

A triangle where the apexis represented by 'the Target'of the Pass Rush or the opposition's QB. The left and right hand points or the extreme points of the Defensive Base of the Triangle are two EDGE Rushers positioned off the LOS and Left and Right Tackles or more skilled OLman than the Guards.

Whoa professor, you're moving a bit fast for me. Is this an isosceles, equilateral, or right triangle? Are you sneaking in non-Euclidean geometry where two pass rushers go upfield in exact parallel lines, but still meet at the QB? What if a triangle is the wrong model and a heptagon is correct with the other five points being four defensive backs and an inside LB? What kind of trigonometry will the Packers have to employ when most of their salary cap goes to an over-the-hill Clay Matthews who TOTALLY disrupts the unit circle?

[bobblehead]

Pettine places emphasis on inside pass rush. This goes back to his days as jets DC.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...-mike-pettine/

TT left them in good shape on this with Clark and Daniels. Addition of Wilkerson completes the package.

I think we are going to learn real fast that Dom was the problem not TT. Of course having Jackson slip to us in the second helped a lot. Possibly best value pick of first 2 rounds.