DSKA: Defense Supplies Kool Aid

[wist43]

We had better pieces all-around on defense in 2010... Matthews 2010 is light years better than Matthews 2018. The other OLB spot was below average in 2010, so advantage 2018.

As for the rest of the defense - it is advantage 2010 over 2018 at every position. Cullen Jenkins was playing better than Daniels or Clark; Pickett was playing very well. Bishop was better than either of our current ILB's. Nick Collins and Charles Woodson?? No comparison to the 2018 players needs to be made. Willams in his prime and Shields playing at a high level??

There's no comparison between 2010 and 2018.

There's some talent to work with on the defensive side of the ball, but it needs to be developed and we need a lot of luck on the injury front. We have zero depth at LB... unless Gilbert continues to improve. Fackrell will likely be cut, I don't think Burks can contribute much of anything this year, and I don't expect anything out of Beigel. The DB's are going to be a work in progress - to be sure there will be growing pains.

Best case scenario is that the defense can gel by mid-season, and the young guys can step up by seasons end and be counted on to perform at a higher than average level. That's asking a lot I think.

[pbmax]

There's no comparison between 2010 and 2018.

The only person to make this comparison is you. Tough to compare almost any D to the #2 ranked scoring defense (#5 in yards). And #2 in DVOA.

[wist43]

The only person to make this comparison is you. Tough to compare almost any D to the #2 ranked scoring defense (#5 in yards). And #2 in DVOA.

I was responding to 31's mention of our OLB's compared to the SB team...

Try to keep up max - might help if you took off those green & gold sunglasses

[KYPack]

Before we bury Martinez, I would note that the guy led the NFL in tackles. He is smart and a good hand out there. He is a guy that Pettine can use to build a defense.

Another big plus for the Pack is Pettine. He totally changed the culture in Cleveland and had them turned around until Haslem meddled with the team and the whole thing went in the toilet. That initial season, Pettine brought the Browns into Cincy and totally smothered them 24-3. That put the Browns in first place in the AFC North for the first time in 20 years. They got to 7-4 and their arrow was on the way up, when Haslam inserted (fourth Down) Johnny Manziel. The browns lost the last 5 games to finish 7-9. The Bengals went up to Cleveland and crushed Manziel and the Browns 30-0.

The Browns were a shadow of their former selves and so was Pettine. When he had his team playing his way, they were in it. A little owner meddling with the QB's and his team was destroyed. I'm sure Pettine is chomping at the bit to run a D his way. I'm hoping like hell it happens in GB.

[Joemailman]

Before we bury Martinez, I would note that the guy led the NFL in tackles. He is smart and a good hand out there. He is a guy that Pettine can use to build a defense.

Led the NFL in tackles, and was in the top 5 in passes defensed among linebackers. In Pettine's system, he could start to get some more pass rushing opportunities. The next step for him would be to have more impact with turnovers. Had 1 INT and 1 FF last year.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Led the NFL in tackles, and was in the top 5 in passes defensed among linebackers. In Pettine's system, he could start to get some more pass rushing opportunities. The next step for him would be to have more impact with turnovers. Had 1 INT and 1 FF last year.

It’s easy to lead the NFL in tackles when you’ve a penchant for tackling runners and receivers past the chains. Likewise, it’s easy to lead the league in pass defensed when QBs love throwing the rock at you cos you suck in coverage.

Martinez is a-OK vs the run. An abomination in coverage.

[mraynrand]

Before we bury Martinez, I would note that the guy led the NFL in tackles. He is smart and a good hand out there. He is a guy that Pettine can use to build a defense.

Another big plus for the Pack is Pettine. He totally changed the culture in Cleveland and had them turned around until Haslem meddled with the team and the whole thing went in the toilet. That initial season, Pettine brought the Browns into Cincy and totally smothered them 24-3. That put the Browns in first place in the AFC North for the first time in 20 years. They got to 7-4 and their arrow was on the way up, when Haslam inserted (fourth Down) Johnny Manziel. The browns lost the last 5 games to finish 7-9. The Bengals went up to Cleveland and crushed Manziel and the Browns 30-0.

The Browns were a shadow of their former selves and so was Pettine. When he had his team playing his way, they were in it. A little owner meddling with the QB's and his team was destroyed. I'm sure Pettine is chomping at the bit to run a D his way. I'm hoping like hell it happens in GB.

That team was pretty talented at injuring TEs as well. Hopefully Martellus Bennett will come out of retirement and sign with a Packer opponent.

[pbmax]

Martinez is a-OK vs the run. An abomination in coverage.

He's not that bad. The Packers alone have had far worse. There is a reason Jones and Burks were added to the team and its not because ILB coverage is worse than its ever been.

It because coverage of the 4th receiving option is more important now ever.

The Packers also have had to devote a lot of DB resources to helping cover WRs. If any of the CBs perform regularly this year (that is healthy starters) then it will make helping the SS and ILB coverages easier. If Clinton-Dix is 25 yards off the ball this year, then ILB coverage might still be an issue.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

He's not that bad. The Packers alone have had far worse. There is a reason Jones and Burks were added to the team and its not because ILB coverage is worse than its ever been.

It because coverage of the 4th receiving option is more important now ever.

The Packers also have had to devote a lot of DB resources to helping cover WRs. If any of the CBs perform regularly this year (that is healthy starters) then it will make helping the SS and ILB coverages easier. If Clinton-Dix is 25 yards off the ball this year, then ILB coverage might still be an issue.

Martinez ain't a corner, so it's a'rite that he can't cover any prima donna wide-outs. Covering TEs and RBs, however, is another matter. Martinez can't cover TEs and RBs. Can't play zone. Can't play man. Hell, can't even play the fudging Pistol Force. Abomination, indeed.

I'm bearish about Martinez's ability to cover like former Bears great, Brian Urlacher. Get the dude off the field on 3rd downs!

[pbmax]

Martinez ain't a corner, so it's a'rite that he can't cover any prima donna wide-outs. Covering TEs and RBs, however, is another matter. Martinez can't cover TEs and RBs. Can't play zone. Can't play man. Hell, can't even play the fudging Pistol Force. Abomination, indeed.

I'm bearish about Martinez's ability to cover like former Bears great, Brian Urlacher. Get the dude off the field on 3rd downs!

I sometimes wonder if you have actually ever watched a game of football. Pistol force again, huh?

[ThunderDan]

I sometimes wonder if you have actually ever watched a game of football. Pistol force again, huh?

Reading comprehension isn't that good either. You talk about better CB play allowing the S to play up and help with inside coverage. APB says ILBs don't cover WRs.

[The Shadow]

I think Pettine will prove to be the Pack's most valuable offseason addition

[hoosier]

It’s easy to lead the NFL in tackles when you’ve a penchant for tackling runners and receivers past the chains. Likewise, it’s easy to lead the league in pass defensed when QBs love throwing the rock at you cos you suck in coverage.

Martinez is a-OK vs the run. An abomination in coverage.

Martinez was tied for 20th among LBs in TFL last year. Not great but not exactly the picture of a defender going backwards either.

[The Shadow]

Even if the defense makes that Great Leap Forward, we are in overall team jeopardy with the backup QB situation. Neither guy is an NFL QB.

[MadScientist]

Even if the defense makes that Great Leap Forward, we are in overall team jeopardy with the backup QB situation. Neither guy is an NFL QB.

I still think Kizer has a chance to become a decent QB if he can take to the coaching. Hundley is there in case the other backups break legs in camp. If he is on the 53, things have gone wrong for the Packers.

[Fritz]

Absolutely. Packers had 20.5 sacks from OLB's in 2010. 13.5 from Matthews. Guys like Beigel, Gilbert and maybe even Holy Fackrell could be a better supporting cast than Poppinga and Zombo were.

All I can say is that Holy Fackrell better drop to his knees and pray if he ever gets an NFL sack, and Biegel better howl.

I imagine Daniels will like the one gap stuff. His talents seemed wasted just plugging holes.

[3irty1]

There's no comparison between 2010 and 2018.

There's some talent to work with on the defensive side of the ball, but it needs to be developed and we need a lot of luck on the injury front. We have zero depth at LB... unless Gilbert continues to improve. Fackrell will likely be cut, I don't think Burks can contribute much of anything this year, and I don't expect anything out of Beigel. The DB's are going to be a work in progress - to be sure there will be growing pains.

Best case scenario is that the defense can gel by mid-season, and the young guys can step up by seasons end and be counted on to perform at a higher than average level. That's asking a lot I think.

My intention was not to say that the entire 2018 defense compares favorably to the entire SB defense. Although 2010 was basically a year where the best case scenario you outlined for 2018 came true. We fell ass-backwards into Sam Shields. Got spectacular contributions from bums like Peprah, Walden, and Green. Overall we had good injury luck on the defensive side of the ball with our most significant injury being the one that brought Bishop to the field. We get something analogous this year and even you'll enjoy watching the defense. Especially since professional integrity demand that you expect a 10 rank improvement on defense by the subtraction of Capers alone.

[wist43]

My intention was not to say that the entire 2018 defense compares favorably to the entire SB defense. Although 2010 was basically a year where the best case scenario you outlined for 2018 came true. We fell ass-backwards into Sam Shields. Got spectacular contributions from bums like Peprah, Walden, and Green. Overall we had good injury luck on the defensive side of the ball with our most significant injury being the one that brought Bishop to the field. We get something analogous this year and even you'll enjoy watching the defense. Especially since professional integrity demand that you expect a 10 rank improvement on defense by the subtraction of Capers alone.

Yeah, I think there's enough talent there combined with the addition of Pettine to improve 10 spots - even with the growing pains and weaknesses.

My hope is that Pettine will play to our strengths, i.e. the DL more than LB's, and realize the young guys on the back end need some protection early on - not just turning them loose on an island.

Next year Gute will have to address the LB positions - don't see how he can avoid that. Matthews will be another year older, who knows what we'll get out of Perry; hopefully Gilbert will continue to improve, and Martinez; but, outside of those guys, I don't see any talent on the current roster able to step up and be counted on moving forward. That's a lot of positions to fill next offseason.

[The Shadow]

Let next year take its course.

[woodbuck27]

Yeah, I think there's enough talent there combined with the addition of Pettine to improve 10 spots - even with the growing pains and weaknesses.

My hope is that Pettine will play to our strengths, i.e. the DL more than LB's, and realize the young guys on the back end need some protection early on - not just turning them loose on an island.

Next year Gute will have to address the LB positions - don't see how he can avoid that. Matthews will be another year older, who knows what we'll get out of Perry; hopefully Gilbert will continue to improve, and Martinez; but, outside of those guys, I don't see any talent on the current roster able to step up and be counted on moving forward. That's a lot of positions to fill next offseason.

This is clearly an assessment year.