Rise of Skywalker

[Anti-Polar Bear]

An aside, I just signed up for the free trial Disney Plus, and tried to binge watch Mandalorian. Unfuckingwatchable. Only 8 episodes, I think. Some chapters run for only half an hour. Still, haven't gotten past chapter 4.

No boobs. No sex. Nobody said the greatest word of all time, "fuck." Violence scenes look fake. I know, it's produced by Disney. But still...wish Netflix, HBO or Amazon had produced it.

The Witcher, starring Superman, now that's a fucking awesome series. Spent an entire day off binging the show and drinking sparkling water tainted with vodka. Happily.

[Zool]

I liked the Last Jedi. Finally a breath of fresh air after Abrams aped another run of movies. It wasn't flawless, but at least it was new with some different ideas.

No one wants to root for a hereditary monarchy except perhaps the Brits. Making Rey an heir was a total noisy fanboy sellout. Was glad it made less than Last Jedi.

But the good news I can report is that younger folk I know well much preferred Solo and Rogue One to any of the last trilogy. And one of them who is old enough to have seen the prequels prefers both to those as well. So there is hope for more and better movies. As long as they give the franchise over to someone else.

I don’t know how to disagree more about TLJ. It’s flawed from start to finish. All of the characters from 7 had their arcs completed fucked. Everyone in the movie did nothing for 2 hours. Take out Finns side quest and the movie does not change other than runtime. Commander Hux is a Vaudville bad guy complete with spittle during yelling. Snoke invented force FaceTime, then died by not paying attention. Literally the exact same way as Maul. Cut in half and surprised.

1:20 OJ in a Bronco chase scene through space. No drama. No build up. Just acres of stupid. Space is fucking 3 dimensional. Light speed ahead of the pack and blow them up. Who the hell would chase them at full impulse power for a week? Then Luke runs out of force juice by using too much force? He was apparently stalling hen there was another way out of the cave the whole time. They just needed the glass Pokémon dog to chow them the way?

Why is Luke a brooding hermit? Hamil himself was super pissed when he read the script. The whole thing was a jumbled mess. Reys parents where drug addicts who sold her for cash? I’d say Abrams did a hell of a job cleaning up the story line after Johnson’s ham fisted commentary on today’s society.

[pbmax]

I don’t have good answers.

There were many holes that were never well explained and I don’t think it was just Johnson. Why does Luke need to be on the Jedi home world if he’s abandoning it? If he’s not abandoning it, what’s he doing? Apparently studying to force transport. He should be trying to help Ben in some way, but :shrug:

The answer, apparently, was to wait until someone wanted his help bad enough to visit. But why isn’t he ready? Or was being an asshole the lesson?

He didn’t force “know” Rey after she broke out? No disturbance in the force?

Finn side quest was suppose to introduce a third political dimension to the two political-military bodies everyone knows but nothing is ever done with it beside the introduction and a chase.

A series with a plan would have use for these developments. Or developments of its own. People are getting rich supplying the warring sides? Good story fodder for Solo to be involved in you would think.

Basically I look at the first Abrams movie as a movie without ideas. A rehash with ideas just leeched out. Johnson had some decent ones to put in. But there was wasn’t much of a thread or branch to hang them on. It was all introduction, and odd thing in the 2nd movie of a trilogy. Rey being no one in particular, I thought, stood well on its own next to Ren’s story.

All were abandoned to the rehash.

I don’t get too worried about plot holes and in movies about faster than light travel.

But how did Leia get thrown through a space window with barely any wounds from the glass or impact hard enough to break a material that survives in space and faster than light stress?

Who created the stupid map in two pieces and gave part of it to Bb8?

But the only question worth asking is how do you make this trilogy without a plan?

[Zool]

They paid Lucas $4b. They were always going to take a swing at the Skywalker saga. I’ll take a rehash every day of the week over the jumbled mess of TLJ. Like when Luke was milking the weird lizard things. Or the guy on the salt planet squats down, dabs the ground with a finger, tastes it, then says “salt” and the camera cuts. So many worthless moments. Like Poe completely losing his mind and trying to bomb 1 ship while losing 50 of his own. The whole prank phone call with Hux. I could write a better movie than that thing.

They should have had Kato make a cameo during the chase scene.

Finns side quest was to show the greed of today’s society. https://www.cinemablend.com/news/166...s-so-important

The same reason that Ep 1 was a mess. Keep politics out of my space-cowboy-wizard movies.

[pbmax]

They paid Lucas $4b. They were always going to take a swing at the Skywalker saga. I’ll take a rehash every day of the week over the jumbled mess of TLJ. Like when Luke was milking the weird lizard things. Or the guy on the salt planet squats down, dabs the ground with a finger, tastes it, then says “salt” and the camera cuts. So many worthless moments. Like Poe completely losing his mind and trying to bomb 1 ship while losing 50 of his own. The whole prank phone call with Hux. I could write a better movie than that thing.

They should have had Kato make a cameo during the chase scene.

Finns side quest was to show the greed of today’s society. https://www.cinemablend.com/news/166...s-so-important

The same reason that Ep 1 was a mess. Keep politics out of my space-cowboy-wizard movies.

The politics were always there, they were just so badly explained that no one paid attention. Until PM when he forced people to listen.

Reversing black and white costumes was a big deal to adults raised on Westerns, not so to kids.

Part of what I relearned in disappointment at Phantom Menace was that Lucasfilm/Disney is making this for kids. The blockbuster audience. Lucas' 70's director obsessions led him to greatly expand the technical wizardry available which upped the audience ages.

I was just happy TLJ tried to do something more than just rehash the first three movies. That he didn't succeed more was not much of a sticking point for me.

But like I said, I think the side projects will thrive with these different approaches, including the Mandolorian, Rogue One and Solo (which also had its flaws but was enjoyable). The best thing to happen will be ending the trilogy of trilogies.

[George Cumby]

I don’t know how to disagree more about TLJ. It’s flawed from start to finish. All of the characters from 7 had their arcs completed fucked. Everyone in the movie did nothing for 2 hours. Take out Finns side quest and the movie does not change other than runtime. Commander Hux is a Vaudville bad guy complete with spittle during yelling. Snoke invented force FaceTime, then died by not paying attention. Literally the exact same way as Maul. Cut in half and surprised.

1:20 OJ in a Bronco chase scene through space. No drama. No build up. Just acres of stupid. Space is fucking 3 dimensional. Light speed ahead of the pack and blow them up. Who the hell would chase them at full impulse power for a week? Then Luke runs out of force juice by using too much force? He was apparently stalling hen there was another way out of the cave the whole time. They just needed the glass Pokémon dog to chow them the way?

Why is Luke a brooding hermit? Hamil himself was super pissed when he read the script. The whole thing was a jumbled mess. Reys parents where drug addicts who sold her for cash? I’d say Abrams did a hell of a job cleaning up the story line after Johnson’s ham fisted commentary on today’s society.

What he said.

Episode 4, when it first came out, was just a mash-up of: The Hidden Fortress, 12 O'clock High, Spaghetti Westerns, Pirate movies and Flash Gordon.

Lucas was just trying to capture the magic of afternoon matinee serials of his childhood. Which he did but only because his editors, including his now ex-wife, saved the film.

But because his ideas were half baked, he didn't have a real idea what came before or after. That's why the EU took off, other writers had ample room to work. This is why you don't see a LOtR 'expanded kingdoms', Tolkien had already done the work of world-building.

At least the prequels had a coherent, if poorly executed, plot arc. The sequel trilogy became this incoherent mess because of the director's bitch fight between Abrams and the other guy.

The flaws of episode 7 aside; rehashing old plot arcs, there was some room to work. But the other guy totally messed it up.

I haven't read them, but true fanboys report the Timothy Zahn books would have made a far better sequel trilogy.

[Zool]

I haven't read them, but true fanboys report the Timothy Zahn books would have made a far better sequel trilogy.

I've read a bunch of them. They are well rounded plots with character arcs that go with the arcs previously established.

I've probably said it here before, but read the Darth Bane trilogy. It's everything Darth Vader could have been.

Obi-wan in 1977 "Darth Vader hunted down and killed all the jedi"

Darth Vader 2005 "Well I killed Tuskans, Politicians, and kids. Now I'm bad-ass right?"

Good thing Obi-wan had the high ground in that fight.

[Zool]

I was just happy TLJ tried to do something more than just rehash the first three movies. That he didn't succeed more was not much of a sticking point for me.

I would have no issue with trying a new direction, if that direction wasn't a steaming pile of shit. He took existing character arcs (flawed as they were with Finn and Rey) and chucked them into a roulette wheel. Where ever they landed was the direction of the film. Rey became an accident, Finn became a caricature, and Poe became a moron.

The leaders of the remaining rebels held back their plan from their mid-ranking officers? Why exactly? Snoke was so strong, he invented a force method binding Rey and Kylo together, yet he died sitting on a chair? I still say Abrams did the best with what he could for 9. The end wasn't great, but the movie zipped along and you actually cared about the characters.

Did you care one bit about what happened to Finn and Rose? Benicio Del Toro as an imprisoned slicer who sold them out to the First Order 6 seconds after they landed? Poe being knocked down a rank in a rebellion? Seriously he actually was demoted....in a rebellion that had 500 people and 8 ships left. New captain lady....need I say more about her?

Ep 7 end with Rey finding Luke, and Snoke asking Hux to bring Kylo to complete his training. Episode 8 was sitting there half written by those 2 plot points alone. Instead we get a white Bronco on I10, followed by

[pbmax]

What he said.

Episode 4, when it first came out, was just a mash-up of: The Hidden Fortress, 12 O'clock High, Spaghetti Westerns, Pirate movies and Flash Gordon.

Lucas was just trying to capture the magic of afternoon matinee serials of his childhood. Which he did but only because his editors, including his now ex-wife, saved the film.

But because his ideas were half baked, he didn't have a real idea what came before or after. That's why the EU took off, other writers had ample room to work. This is why you don't see a LOtR 'expanded kingdoms', Tolkien had already done the work of world-building.

At least the prequels had a coherent, if poorly executed, plot arc. The sequel trilogy became this incoherent mess because of the director's bitch fight between Abrams and the other guy.

The flaws of episode 7 aside; rehashing old plot arcs, there was some room to work. But the other guy totally messed it up.

I haven't read them, but true fanboys report the Timothy Zahn books would have made a far better sequel trilogy.

I completely believe that he did not really have nine films outlined and really possessed just an over long story for his one movie - Star Wars.

I have read, but never really convincingly, that Alec Guiness basically quit while filming and thus his "death" on the Death Star. I would also believe that happened along with the editing and story help. Iron Man never had a coherent script and they just muddled their way through and "found it in editing". But that is a dangerous game to play.

The prequels argue that plot coherency is vastly overrated. And Lucas is a very poor director for actors who need guidance. Guiness and Cushing were just cruising along, Ford was adult enough to carry through (even if his resume was tissue thin). Fisher was a movie unto herself. And young Mark Hamill was very good at portraying someone young and inexperienced; almost like he wasn't acting.

Episode 7 was exclusively rehashed plot elements. Even Ben Solo was just confused teenage Anakin. Abrams, if he had any extended ideas about what would follow, never got to them. And the producers never insisted that an overall story be adhered to. I find that astonishing, as Disney clearly wanted to follow the Marvel model of a "Universe" of movies but somehow forgot that key element. I say that advisedly, because I think connecting all those Marvel movies together was over played. Needing to fit hurt a couple of those movies.

The only two ideas I took away was the worship of Vader and the unknown parentage of Rey (which to me felt entirely less about Star Wars and Luke and more Abrams "mystery box" bullshit. https://theweek.com/articles/460936/...en-mystery-box

In fact, one reason I much preferred TLJ was that I thought Johnson far more capable of finding an ending. You can read more about Abrams and that mystery box approach, but it causes him HUGE problems with finding endings to his projects (see Lost, Super 8, Star Trek Into Darkness). Is there a story to the Knights of Ren? I doubt it belonged to Abrams.

Its also appalling that "mystery box" JJ has basically copyrighted the idea of a macgufin, which is Hitchcock's thing. Abrams is a mimic and mystery box is a dumb name for a macguffin. It also mistakes the important detail of a macguffin - that it could be anything because it doesn't matter to the story. The characters just need the suitcase. Abrams wraps the entirety of his films around needing to know what the mystery is and then fails to deliver. One reason Johnson struggled to connect the movies? Abrams left everyone hanging.

So give me abandoned by parents Rey, completely lost at sea Luke and young kids forced to work on a casino planet. You can find a story there. Though he did fail to deliver on either Finn or Poe's stories. And no, I cannot make the space chase coherent either.

[scharpcheddar]

the previous Star wars and Rogue one were better than the last one

[Zool]

So give me abandoned by parents Rey, completely lost at sea Luke and young kids forced to work on a casino planet. You can find a story there. Though he did fail to deliver on either Finn or Poe's stories. And no, I cannot make the space chase coherent either.

So 80% of the movie you didn't like.

[3irty1]

Damn Zool. You prosecuted that case savagely.

[Deputy Nutz]

The last three movies seemed to be pieced together with scotch tape. If you were going to green light another Skywalker trilogy it should have had 3 scripts approved before the first movie was made. There are so many plot lines, and pathways available, Disney could have put together to make a great ending to the series, but it bogged down in B.S.

When I am in the theatre I truly enjoyed Rise of Skywalker, but reflecting on it and seeing it second time the movie deserved way more build up and plot thickening in the previous movies. Instead of Snoke, they should have just made a better, clearer reference to the Palpatine.

I am a closet Star Wars fan, and after watching all the movies in sequences I have to say I have never been really impressed with the screen writing of any of the movies. There are certain scenes that we fall in love with in every movie, and those scenes captivate us enough to fall in love with Star Wars.

[red]

The last three movies seemed to be pieced together with scotch tape. If you were going to green light another Skywalker trilogy it should have had 3 scripts approved before the first movie was made. There are so many plot lines, and pathways available, Disney could have put together to make a great ending to the series, but it bogged down in B.S.

When I am in the theatre I truly enjoyed Rise of Skywalker, but reflecting on it and seeing it second time the movie deserved way more build up and plot thickening in the previous movies. Instead of Snoke, they should have just made a better, clearer reference to the Palpatine.

I am a closet Star Wars fan, and after watching all the movies in sequences I have to say I have never been really impressed with the screen writing of any of the movies. There are certain scenes that we fall in love with in every movie, and those scenes captivate us enough to fall in love with Star Wars.

That’s what happens when that one idiot came in with the second movie and shit all over everything JJ had established with the first movie

JJ should have just been allowed to do all three from the beginning

[mraynrand]