I see those lame-assed attempts at moral equivalence by several in here - that's always been a favorite tactic of the party and people who don't have the interests of America and Americans at heart. It's bogus here, as it almost always is. And We the People know it.
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Not at all. You missed the point entirely. There was zero reference to morality. It's physchology. It's how we are wired.Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker
This is what you said "Human nature, motivated reasoning. You present the exact same facts and propose two different solutions, if you also indicate (random) party affiliations with these solutions the party is more important than facts to which is preferred.
Second part is people confronted with this freely see the bias in others, but are blind to their own."
I don't think there is a word "physchology" hahahaha, but regardless, what you said absolutely is the definition of moral equivalence. "how we're wired"? No, it's how one side - the anti-American side - is wired, grasping at straws as they see the American People not buying the crap they are selling.
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I agree
Tex, I'm referring to studies showing just what I said. It's not a statement about one party or the other.
You asked me who I blamed for political leaning seemingly dominating logic and facts. I blamed human nature because the evidence points that way.
A president does something and someone labeling themselves as the other party criticizes. Nine times out of ten (I made up the percentage, but you get the point) whether we agree with the critcism will line up with "our" party. The validity of the criticism matter so much less than the you vs them.
There's also evidence that when presented the evidence of this bias, we'll more readily admit that others have the bias, but we know deep down that we are different. We are right and the true exception to the rest of humanity!
Was that too over the top? Probably, but what the hell.
And I'm saying that implying any validity to the agenda-driven criticism is wrongheaded, possibly innocently by you, but wrongheaded just the same.
Do you or do you not give any credence to the bullshit criticism you talk about?
Do you seriously not acknowledge that the travel bans saved tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of lives, and the various mitigation procedures, many of which even I don't like, are pretty much the best middle course of action that could have been taken?
Do you seriously claim that the words and actions of the two sides here are equally good or bad to each other?
These are not rhetorical questions, but tests of whether or not you're afflicted with the disease of corona moral equivalence - and I assume you're in favor of testing.
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It's a complex set of questions. The fact that you think it can be answered without any more detail than generic statements relying entirely on some notion of what the "other" side is to you is proving my point. There aren't two sides, there are millions of people with all sorts of different views.
Let's start with what criticism am I supposed to be considering? Be specific in terms of who (name a person) and the words and context.
Actually, they're all just yes or no questions ....... but by all means, go into detail.
Those millions of views can generally be grouped as for or against - easily. I hope you take a stand rather than use whatever as an excuse to wimp out - I'm still trying to form an overall opinion of you.
What criticism? Pick pretty much anything negative said about Trump or the sum total of it regarding handling of this corona mess - I ask you again, do you or do you not give any credence to the bullshit?
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Some is valid and some is bullshit. Nobody is perfect. I don't know which criticism you have in your head since you won't tell me.
I said pick any. ok, I'll pick one for you.
Trump's travel bans - I would say far and away by a large margin the most significant factor in greatly reducing corona deaths, and something most leftists hated and would not have done just because of their damned anti-American bias - and that conclusion about leftists is based mostly on their own words, Biden, for example, against it before saying he was for it months after the fact.
I ask you again, can you cite ANY of Trump's actions that have not either been very successful and popular or unpopular but grudgingly accepted as lessening deaths? And can you cite ANY example of leftist suggestions that would have better served the American People. And do you seriously see the bulk of the criticism of Trump as anything other desperate politicizing by the side he beat in the election and presumably will beat again?
Please try to stop the ducking and dodging you have been doing and take a stand.
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Travel ban was helpful, but it's a fair criticism to ask how effective it was with a loophole that allowed 40k individuals from China into the US. Don't go halfway and get downside without the upside.
No matter what Trump did, it was open for criticism, and speculation that there was a better option. I don't think it's really open for debate on that point, he couldn't win with certain people regardless. On the other hand certain people will never admit he could have done better. Neither is right.
If I had to pick one critcism, it's this. Understanding you can never get everything perfect, the thing he was in control of was clarity of his message. There are many benefits to being clear and consistent, but the messaging was kinda all over the map, both with just his statements over time and between different individuals in the administration. Case in point is saying the cases could go to zero while his own team was saying it was inevitable that it would spread here. There's other examples.
You didn't address the point of blatantly politicized criticism by media and other leftists. You also didn't cite any ideas or suggestions from the other side that would have been more effective than the actions Trump has taken.
40,000 came from China? after the travel ban? I don't know how they managed that unless they were American citizens, but if it's true, it shouldn't have happened. I assume they were suitably quarantined.
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Yes, 40,000. Mostly citizens, over a thousand directly from Wuhan. It appears they were not quarantined in a consistent ror robust fashion.
His all time most insightful post.
Who said I had all the answers?
Noble attempt to keep the thread interesting while staying on topic. Though I was disappointed it had no raptor reference.
Special shout out to the homie Radagast. As shitty as he can be I don’t think he has ever had a thread moved due to posting about politics.
I don't deserve any credit. There are 38 threads about Covid on this site. I have no idea what thread I'm in. I will probably draft Covid in the third round.
I'll take my medicine, but I don't think I said anything about politics before this thread was moved.
Yeah, me too. I'll confine any further remarks on this topic to FYI.
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