Tex, you probably liked George Allen and his Over the Hill Gang back in the 70's didn't you? I mean, except that you liked the Cowpukes. But the concept, you probably liked.
Tex, you probably liked George Allen and his Over the Hill Gang back in the 70's didn't you? I mean, except that you liked the Cowpukes. But the concept, you probably liked.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
The only thing I ever liked about George Allen was after his coaching career, and that's unmentionable in this part of the forum hahahaha (or was that his son?) Macaca!
There's a colossal difference between retaining your own quality players - which is mostly a financial thing, and going after quality players from other teams. Furthermore, regarding Allen and the '70s era, I'm pretty sure the free agency rules were different back then and maybe salary cap too, if it existed at all. Most of what Allen did was trades and giving up draft picks - which I considered stupid then, and which nobody is really suggesting the Packers do now, at least not like Allen did.
And yeah, the Cowboys were my second favorite team even before I was in Texas, going back to the days when they and the "Dallas Texans" of the AFL had a veritable blood feud which resulted in Lamar Hunt getting chased out to K.C, and his team named the Chiefs. And when I moved here, thanks to the army, so much more so, they were my second team. Ya'all are probably gonna have sad times for years if Rodgers really is gone. I, on the other hand, have the Cowboys to root for, not to mention a great resurgence of Badger football. It's gonna suck to be ya'all hahahaha - be careful what you wish for.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
Preston could be gone after the season, but the way they redid his contract doesn't save them much if they do... I think like 2.5M in 2024.Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker
How would you handle Bahktiari's contract? It expires after the 2024 season and they just redid it. His cap number balloons next year and they save a lot of money by releasing him. Are you saying they extend him? if they wanted to do void years they would likely already have done that when they redid it this year. I'm curious what you view as "handled right" means.
I agree you don't want to get rid of quality players if you don't have to, but age and contracts along with cap space might demand it. I love Aaron Jones but giving a 5-9 30 year old RB 17M in 2024 is not smart. Maybe they can do something to keep him but you're likely extending him and asking him to take a paycut or something. Again, RBs have short careers and can be replaced without too much trouble, so paying a lot for one is iffy.
I wouldn't give up on this season or those beyond it, especially if the Super Bowl isn't your thing. I don't expect them to win the SB, and I'd be surprised if they win 10+ games, but they should be more interesting and possibly more fun than last year. We at least get to see what the MLF offense will look like, and we can see if/how JL, Watson, Doubs, and other young players develop. Free agency -- once they unwind their cap mess -- as well as NFL's push for parity will likely get GB back into playoffs sooner than you might think. I remember the bad old days of the 80's, they aren't going back to that. The league and the GB FO are too smart for that now.
I could see one or two down years. That’s why I wouldn’t mind next years first from the Jets. It would give us two 2024 1sts (one presumably in the top 15). If we see our QB, we could move up with the two firsts and the 2025 first to get our guy if Love flops.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
With all due respect, you folks without a meaningless bachelor’s in accounting (not to mention, having passed the not-so-easy Wisconsin CPA exams) have no fucking clue what y’all barking about when the subject pertains to the NFL salary cap.
“Dead money” has already been accounted for, cash flow-wise. The Packers currently have about $17M in dead money. That doesn’t mean they don’t have $17M to spend on free agents. They can simply create $17M in cap space by “cooking the cap.” Sure, doing such would lead to more dead money in the future. But such dead money would be offset by expiring contracts and the ever increasing salary cap. And trust me, cooking the cap ain’t gonna be banned in the future.
Some examples of why dead money is irrelevant: Had the Packers terminate underachiever Cletidus Clark instead of restructuring his contract, they would be fucked with $20M in “dead money.” Yet, they would actually gain $3M in cap space with the move; next season, Clark’s contract would be off the books and they would get something like $20M in cap space! The fucking Panthers currently have over $51M in dead money. Illogic says they should be in a so-called cap he’ll. Yet, the fucking Panthers currently have more cap space available than the fucking Packers!
Mic drop as I go back to flipping burgers - all because tunderdan won’t hire me be a CPA.
I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.
You're partly right, APB. The dead money has been paid already, and thus accounted for cash flow-wise. It still counts against the cap, in future years generally speaking. If they restructure a $10M salary down to $2M and pay the rest in a bonus, that 'cooks' the cap by spreading that $8 across the remainder of the contract. Let's say it's over two years in this example Cash flow-wise, it's paid out, and the amount against the current year is $6M (2 + 8/2) instead of 10, but the remaining 4 is added to whatever is owed next year. It doesn't vanish, it accumulates into a future year.
You can cook a cap by adding void years, redoing all your significant 2nd contracts so the salaries are small, etc. but sooner or later you run out of cap space or redoable contracts or both. If you overcook your cap you can end up with a lot of that cooked money hitting your cap all at once and putting you in cap hell.
The Panthers aren't in cap hell despite eating a lot of money for DJ Moore, McCaffrey and Anderson because they have very few players left with big contracts -- Brian Burns and Shaq Thompson lead the way at 16M and 14M. They could probably do something with Burn's contract, I believe it's the 5th year. Next year they have a ton of cap space. GB has several contracts where they are paying out 20M. GB right now looks like they have quite a bit of space, but they need $9 million more to trade AR, plus some for draft picks etc.
Cap can be cooked, but not indefinitely. There are limits, and not just the cap itself. You have to have workable contracts to cook. Some of GBs contracts aren't easy to get out of, not just AR's. Has Russ Ball lost a step? They've done a lot of cooking already.
The Packers could probably make about 30 or 40 more million if they max voided everyone possible. But then they’re out of ways to cook the cap.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
The above is where I'm sitting, mentally, these days. It's not that I "hate" Rodgers - sure I whine about his personality sometimes, but he doesn't abuse women or children or kill people, so in my eyes he's a better person than many NFL players. I just got tired of the drama the past couple of years. Will he or won't he? How much say will he have over personnel? Are his emotional needs being met by the front office? And while he played at a high level prior to last year, some of that, at least, was the brilliance of Davante Adams. But still, Rodgers is the best QB I've ever seen play in Green Bay, going back to Bart Starr. I'm just ready for the next chapter - see if and how the young guy develops, see what MLF's offense "really" looks like, see how the front office, completely untethered from Rodgers's "requests," drafts this year and who they sign or don't sign. Just time to turn the page, for me. I know Tex doesn't feel that way, and that's fine. Rodgers has brought a bunch of success to GB, at least up until the playoffs, and since Tex doesn't care much about the playoffs, then that's not a big deal for him.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Who gives a fuck about being hit with a dead money of $20M when you gain an extra $3M in cap space? Who gives a fuck about having $50M in dead money when you have $60M in cap space?
Only a bunch of fat white pigs and that fat desert camel in Jacksonville give a fuck. Dead money is nothing but an accounting tool the owners utilize to keep labor expenses down. Like, yo, let’s cut Cletidus Clark cos Nutz could do what Clark does (3 sacks a season, inability to dominate the trenches and a penchant for disappearing for long stretches in the season) for far less frogskins; Cletidus’ dead cap of $20M gives us pigs an excuse not to spend frogskins on hotshot players til the goddamn CBA forces us to!
Absence of Butte, which vet currently on the Packers roster is worthy of a big contract? Only J-Alex. Perhaps Gary Lightbody, too, if he can continue to ascend post injury. The dead money of Amos, Tonyan, Crosby, Lowry, and even Butte, among others, ain’t gonna mean shit in 3 years when the Packers will be something like $100M under the cap - which will force them to go on a spending spree, per the CBA.
I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.
Where to start, so much to comment on hahahahaha.
APB, as always, great job analyzing the cap; Lousy job analyzing Clark. That chart somebody posted a while back about the cap and dead money and where all the teams stand really said it all. Pushing things to the limit is really the way to go if you want to win - that plus getting lucky is the formula. Yeah, dead money is already paid; Yeah also, it counts against the cap; The thing is, it gets spead out.
That spreading out, runpMc, is the answer to "what I'd do about Bakhtiari's contract". First of all, I'm not the one to ask, because I have way lower regard for that sacred cow than just about anybody. But assuming (dubiously) that he is worth keeping, you just do what has been done with so many other good players, extend extend extend, and don't worry about the fact the cap hits continue after the guy is gone. Similarly, Aaron Jones shouldn't have a cap hit of $17 million, but he absolutely shouldn't be gone. In other words, he more than any others mentioned should be extended and the cap hit spread out. The Panthers were stupid to get rid of the players they got rid of, but that's somebody else's problem.
As for a "bright future" with Love, Watson, Doubs, etc., Watson is gonna be absolutely great if he stays healthy, but he will probably go to waste to a great extent with Love rather than Rodgers at QB. Doubs is like a lot of other WRs around the league, ok, maybe even good, but not great. If the Packers are gonna be anything other than solidly below average with Love as QB, Aaron Jones is one key, and the D stepping up - as is highly unlikely with Joe Barry - is the other key. That, a healthy Watson, and special teams not blowing it, and you get up to maybe 9 or 10 wins. I would think 5-8 wins is a lot more likely. That's what's on that page ya'all want to turn to. Be careful what you wish for.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
Tex, what do you call someone who produces 3 sacks season, is a milksop in the trench, especially vs the run, and does more disappearing acts than a teenager flipping burgers - all while getting paid $18M/yr?
A: An overrated, overpaid, underachiever.
I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.
I call him a top five, maybe top 2 or 3 interior D Lineman in the league who gets way too much blocking attention due to lesser players around him (maybe Wyatt will help that situation) and a scheme where a lot of what he's supposed to do is occupy blockers while the LBs zoom in or out to make the tackles and get the sacks.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
I tend to lean closer to Tex's assessment of Kenny Clark. He's a bit overpaid and didn't have a great year, but he has had very little help on the DL and is frequently doubled teamed.
per https://www.packersnews.com/
For the season, he was double-teamed on 190 of his 809 defensive snaps or 23.5% of the time. He was doubled on 120 pass plays and 70 run plays.
By comparison, Gary was double-teamed on 15.4% of his 376 snaps. Surprisingly, he was doubled on just 10.5% of pass plays.Depends on the player and how tight against the cap you are.Who gives a fuck about being hit with a dead money of $20M when you gain an extra $3M in cap space?
When you cook the cap, the money does not just evaporate away, you still have to account for it in a future cap year. The cap is not unlimited. Each restructure is essentially a new loan, borrowed against future cap space.
If you think Jaire is the only player worthy of a big contract, you'd be letting a number of very good players go. I'm not sure I'd go that far.
As for Bahktiari's contract, they just redid it for this year, pushing money out until next year - his final year. That they didn't add any void years is telling. It likely means he either doesn't want to do any favors for GB, or he wants to keep open the possibility of an extension. Void years can get in the way of that.
OBJ going to Ravens.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Plays three games, makes an impact. Packer fans bitch that Guter didn't sign him. Gets hurt in fourth game - just an "aggravating" injury. Misses two games. Comes back. Plays in two more. Gets hurt again. etc, etc.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
The shocker is they’re paying him $15M guaranteed. This to a guy who has barely played the last 3 years with 2 ACL injuries and the wrong side of 30.
Ravens WR group has not been very good, especially after they traded Hollywood Brown. He's the de facto #1 and he has guaranteed money. Not a bad setup for him.
I also wonder if he knows something about the Lamar situation. I can't believe he's so concerned with only the money that he'd play for a team without a top 10 QB. Tyler Huntley isn't bad, but IIRC he's on a one year RFA deal and he's no Lamar.
Weird signing. He wasn't a fit for GB, schematically or cap-wise anyway.
I don't know if anyone else in the league would've even come close to matching that number, given what his injury history/age is. So at that rate, I kinda doubt OBJ would care if Brett Hundey's mom was throwing the football for the Ravens.
Weirdly overpaid for what they're going to get.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Lions trade Jeff Okudah to ATL for a R5 pick.
Okudah was the #3 overall pick a few years back. He's had injury problems and has been inconsistent but with good coaching and support around him is young enough where he could still be decent.
Prevailing theory is DET will take a CB with one of their R1 picks.
Lions really pooped the bed on that one.
But that was the previous GM, who came from the scraggly Belichik coaching bush.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
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