Official 2023 Bury Joe Barry Thread

[bobblehead]

I grudgingly must give Barry credit for the job the defense did in Detroit. He had a second-string secondary and the Lions only scored 22. That’s a good job, like the guy or not.

But like you, I did wonder where the hell this scheming has been all year long. So I agree with your post.

He also put up a monster effort in the playoff game against SF when our ST allowed a blocked punt to lose it. He has had a few inspired efforts, but again, I can't get behind keeping a guy based on a good game here and there. Coaches preach "consistency" and rightly so. The plays where Myers gets blown up, and the lapses Yosh has tend to kill entire possessions. The game plans Barry has put together have lost us games. If they can demand it of the players we can demand it of the coaches.

[bobblehead]

Barry is slow to adjust, but he will adjust. I'll give him that. They played surprisingly well vs. DET and looked like an inspired defense. I wonder how much of that was Rashan Gary playing out of his mind. He was very emotional for this game and is widely viewed in the locker room as being an emotional leader, so maybe that gave them a little extra fire today. The Week 4 whipping probably had something to do with it too, along with DET being national writer darlings.

There are whispers that the Fangio defense is being figured out by teams, and that many teams who have adopted it aren't successful because you really need specific playmakers to make it go. I suppose that's why Staley looked great with Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey.

I'm not convinced the way Barry calls the defense is smart given the Lions and Bears are run-heavy offenses. Why would you trot out 2 DL and leave the C uncovered to run up and block your ILB? That's just asking to get run off the field. I understand the idea is to make the other team walk down the field by playing soft zone and keeping things in front of you, but GB doesn't tackle well and can barely hand off covering routes that cross from one player's zone to another.

I am starting to have serious concerns Barry will be brought back. He seems tied to MLF's hip and the fact that they have held a lot of team's garbage offenses to 20 points or less is going to be a selling point. They still allow a lot of rushing yards and are a middle of the road defense statistically, and that's after playing bad-to-middling teams like CHI, DEN, LV, and ATL.

Our D looked good against detroit for 2 reasons. We did use 3 down linemen most of the game. We also played with a lead and forced a running team into passing situations. Clark is still good at pressuring the QB when he isn't getting gashed for 10 yard runs because his only one of two down linemen. Gary was in absolute beast mode. Let me see them slow down KC before I get too excited.

As I have said many times, its symbiotic. When the offense keeps the D fresh the D looks better. When the D gets stops the offense plays with more confidence. When you complete passes it opens the run, and vice versa. On and on it goes.

[Fritz]

I really wish he’d play three down linemen more often. He did though at least play to Jonathon Owens’s strength by putting him in the box. The guy tackled well. He probably couldn’t defend my mom on a pass route, but he seemed good against the run that day.

[Upnorth]

10th in league points allowed. With 0 starting secondary....
Last year d came on second half.
I might like Barry right now. Chargers and Detroit are goodish on o...

[bobblehead]

I really wish he’d play three down linemen more often. He did though at least play to Jonathon Owens’s strength by putting him in the box. The guy tackled well. He probably couldn’t defend my mom on a pass route, but he seemed good against the run that day.

He would let your mom use the walker to gain separation. A good safety wouldn't let that happen.

[run pMc]

Hate to say it, but unless the D collapses down the stretch I think they bring Barry back next year.

They've done well in terms of scoring defense with a lot of starters hurt and a secondary consisting of who-dat's.

If they can him, who would they bring in? Evero? Staley? They run the same scheme... would be the same things. Maybe they play more 3DL or adjust faster, but a big chunk of the league currently runs Fangio stuff; it would just be more of the same.
Hiring Wink Martendale from the NYG would be problematic also, his scheme is aggressive but GB might not have the players for it. Not sure if Sean McDermott is on a hot seat. Saleh is probably safe bc Rodgers injury.

Gregg Williams is persona non grata in the NFL and Jim Schwartz is happy where he is.
I don't like Barry's performance overall but I'm not sure MLF is going to let him go for an unknown given their background, and if GB finishes top 12 in scoring D they will keep him.

[Upnorth]

If he shuts down kc, we have a bunch of wins ahead against teams that generally will make d look good.

I say we are definitely seeing Barry in 2024 unless d melts down sunday

[Upnorth]

3 top 10 o, 3 20 points allowed. That is not horrible.

They can't carry us, but aren't as bad as we worried

[Joemailman]

Seems the crowd is torn.

Bill Huber
@BillHuberNFL
Writing about the defense now and am wondering:

Let's say the season ended today. And let's say you were running the Packers. Would you fire Joe Barry?

Yes 49.5%

No 50.5%

[RashanGary]

Seems the crowd is torn.

I never said a bad word about Barry. I think it’s 90% players and 10% coaching. Dom Capers coached top 3 defenses and bottom 10 defenses. Depends on personnel.

[bobblehead]

I never said a bad word about Barry. I think it’s 90% players and 10% coaching. Dom Capers coached top 3 defenses and bottom 10 defenses. Depends on personnel.

It took him way too long to start using 3 down linemen. We were getting our 2 DL double teamed and crushed up the middle for 10 yards a pop all fucking season until Love started letting him play with a lead more. I fear that the first time we are down a score we will see the D getting run on again. He seems to need weeks, not halves to adjust. Same shit happened during our mid season losing streak last year.

[Fritz]

MLF had to basically tell him he needed to blitz more - was that last year, or two years ago?

And I fear you're correct - he seems to default to his two DL scheme once the pressure's off him. Weird.

[run pMc]

I think he gets better as the season goes on, maybe that's schedule helping. It's almost like it takes him half the season to remember how to call a defense. I saw someone post a theory that he's just good at copying from others, and it takes about that long into a season for him to see what is working around the league and copy/apply it to GB's defense. Not sure that's 100% off base.

The 2 DL thing is pretty maddening. Who cares if they aren't throwing it down the field if they can run it for 6-7 yards a clip every time (a la PIT)? You can still cover 75 yards in 11-12 plays and score that way. If I was an opposing team I'd call mostly runs inside the RZ, maybe include something that is a zone buster or will confuse the backup safeties/corners.
Agree they should use 3DL early, even if they are in nickel (I guess that would be a 'penny' front - 3DL, 2 OLB, 1 ILB, 5DBs). When you have 2 DL and the offense is running at you, who cares if you have two ILBs? Their angles to the ball carrier are shot to hell because the DL are getting pushed into them. Quay ends up with 17 tackles 5 yards downfield. (See also: AJ Hawk, Blake Martinez, etc.) At least with 3DL you can hold up at LOS a little better. Thing is, it puts a lot of pressure on the ILB to cover a lot of ground, but Quay is supposed to be rangy.

IDK, I just think there are holes in what/how Barry calls things. He's not a tire fire, but I'm not a fan. I will say they are playing what MLF calls "complimentary football" which matters. The D was supposed to help keep the team in games, and early they weren't great but overall they've largely done that. Most of their losses have been close. If he started out the year on fire and kept it going maybe I'd feel differently.

[RashanGary]

Gary, Preston and LVN are 280. Those are legit DEs. Except for the instances where it’s Enagbare or the other 5th string smaller guy that was playing, your whole 2 DL thing is kinda bullshit, ya’ll.

[Joemailman]

Gary, Preston and LVN are 280. Those are legit DEs. Except for the instances where it’s Enagbare or the other 5th string smaller guy that was playing, your whole 2 DL thing is kinda bullshit, ya’ll.

That's true, but they're standing up which is a less advantageous position for taking on a run block as opposed to a 3 point stance.

[run pMc]

It's also less advantageous when they are lined up as wide 9 techs, and the 2 DL are basically lined up over the guards. The center has an easy path to one of the backers. You're just asking to get run roughshod up the middle like PIT and DET did.

Also, Gary isn't exactly known for setting an edge against the run, or his run stopping ability in general.

[ThunderDan]

It's also less advantageous when they are lined up as wide 9 techs, and the 2 DL are basically lined up over the guards. The center has an easy path to one of the backers. You're just asking to get run roughshod up the middle like PIT and DET did.

Also, Gary isn't exactly known for setting an edge against the run, or his run stopping ability in general.

That is exactly what I was going to say. Having 2 of your DL standing in 9 or wide 9 leaves the whole middle open.

If you look at the film, we have 3 guys inside the tackles and are getting gashed up the middle.

[texaspackerbacker]

The problem with the Joe Barry D is not so much the 2 man line in his base D. It's the way they use the D Line - instead of stuffing RBs and plugging gaps, they are acting like O Lineman, trying to clear out and let the ILBs make the tackle. That basically gives the RB a running start and a wider area to juke and run through. That's a waste of Kenny Clark and Slaton, and it places too much reliance on Walker and Campbell. I was surprised to see that Quay Walker was in on 13 tackles, but where were they? Too often too many yards down field.

[bobblehead]

Gary, Preston and LVN are 280. Those are legit DEs. Except for the instances where it’s Enagbare or the other 5th string smaller guy that was playing, your whole 2 DL thing is kinda bullshit, ya’ll.

Its where they are lining up yo. If you have two guys weighing 700 pounds lining up at the 7 they aren't stopping the run if you have 2 interior guys at the 2's or near there. The C/G double one of them and the other G just has to wall off a guy. The RB is 8 yards up field before anyone can hit him.

[bobblehead]

It's also less advantageous when they are lined up as wide 9 techs, and the 2 DL are basically lined up over the guards. The center has an easy path to one of the backers. You're just asking to get run roughshod up the middle like PIT and DET did.

Also, Gary isn't exactly known for setting an edge against the run, or his run stopping ability in general.

Yea, what we said....But I don't think we are wide 9 with them very often. Close though.