Reflections on Gooter

[Sparkey]

7 games, plus a bye are enough to expect to see some signs of improvement. We are not seeing any. Doubs and Watson look worse than last year. Love's accuracy is not getting better, and the running game is weak, both in design and execution. Even if you think the players have the talent, the pathetic showing in the first half of every game shows a sever coaching problem that needs to be dealt with.

Love completed 67% of his passes Sunday. The penalties and terrible run blocking are killing the offense.

[call_me_ishmael]

Not sure I can fault Gute on Bahk, as that was to placate Rodgers. I doubt Gute gives him the huge deal without the Rodgers dynamic.

His high end draft capital has been mediocre at best. To me, a really good GM will hit solid starter on more than 50% of his top 100 picks. Let’s review Gute…5* is great starter, 3* is solid starter, 1* is hot garbage

2018: Jaire 5*, Jackson 1*, Burks 1* (33%)
2019: Gary 5*, Savage 1*, Jenkins 5*, Sternburger 1* (50%)
2020: Love 3*, Dillon 3*, Deguara 1* (66%)
2021: Stokes 1*, Myers 1*, Rodgers 1* (0%)
2022: Walker 3*, Wyatt 1*, Watson 3*, Rhyan 1* (50%)

Really hasn’t hit on anything solid for several years. Quay has probably been his best pick since 2019. The jury is still kind of out on Love. I think he can be a solid starter, but that isn’t what you want at QB even if it works at other positions. Stokes pick may be one you don’t consider due to the injuries.

7 for 17 is a poor track record in the top 100.

I sort of agree with you but I also think he should get credit that his R1 hits shine very brightly instead of being just good players. Both are top 5 type guys at their positions. That's pretty rare.

We don't talk enough about how AJ Dillon ran a 4.4 and now runs a 5.4

[sharpe1027]

Love completed 67% of his passes Sunday. The penalties and terrible run blocking are killing the offense.

How many of the completions hit the target in stride and didn't require the receiver to make a difficult adjustment?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Elgton Jenkins is a two time Pro Bowler, he was a good pick. The GMs who took Metcalf and Brown in R2 also took LJ Collier and Andre Dillard in R1. EVERY GM passed on Deebo in R1.

As for Love, I preferred Jalen Hurts (more accurate in college, higher level of competition) to Jordan Love, but many scouts liked Love's arm and ability to play off-schedule. He was a Top 40 pick at a minimum. Picking a RB high is dicey at best; you don't do it unless you have a game-changer. That was the mistake with Dillon in R2. You can find dynamic or even serviceable RBs in Day 3, as has been proven by GB with Jamaal/AJones.

EVERY GM has swings and misses, just because you liked a player better that GB didn't take doesn't make the GM bad. Most people were WTF with Rodgers and Nick Collins

Would the Packers be a better team with Tom at LG, Nijman at RT and Metcalf and Brown at WR, or with the current lineup of Fucking Center at LG, Tom at RT and Christine and Doubs at WR?

Point is, the Packers wouldn’t miss a fucking beat with Tom playing LG instead of the “Pro Bowler” Fucking Center. Hell, Tom, a 4th rounder, is already a better tackle than the Fucking Center. Christine can’t hold Metcalf’s jockstrap. Doubs can’t hold Browns’ jockstrap.

Never use premium picks on Yokozunas.

[MadScientist]

Love completed 67% of his passes Sunday. The penalties and terrible run blocking are killing the offense.

Most of these were short passes. He is constantly behind the receiver on deeper passes. He was behind both receivers on the touchdown passes. It was only great effort by Doubs to take the balk away from the defender on the first and absolute luck on the second that made this debacle close. That other elements of the offense suck doesn't change the fact that Love hasn't been playing good enough.

[bobblehead]

Counter point - did they use those picks well? Did they get good players with them? Early returns are not encouraging as the DL still cannot stop the run and the WR is afraid of the ball. Last year folks were thinking Chris Watson could turn into a poor man's Randy Moss. Right now I have my doubts that he is even a second contract kind of guy.

Watson is lightning. He is ascending. Given the offense as a whole I'm not disappointed in how they used that pick at all. Quay is a flat out stud you can build a defense around. So yes, I think we used the Devante picks well. Musgrave is the only pick in so far on the Rodgers deal and he has been more productive than Rodgers. He is a rookie TE and will be around for a decade. So far, yes, we used that pick well.

Agreed on the OL.



They just look like total ass right now. They looked okay with the previous guy, an all-timer. They look like ass presently. I have posted before that Gooter kinda sucks as a drafter. He has done really well in the first round but he rarely gets 2-3 starters in a draft. Last year does look great though. The other years, kinda blah.

They looked like ass last season with the previous guy as well. How quickly you forget. Jesus, did you watch last season?? Tell me how the last guy whooped Detroit compared to this guy. Almost every splash play in Watson's short career happened with Love throwing the ball, or him taking a handoff. Thats just a truth. And in Gutes defense he traded up to "win now" and lost picks in previous drafts. Traded 4ths mainly. How has he performed in the 4th lately? Doubs and Tom come to mind. I'm even liking Wooden a bit for a rook.

I have no problem with them rebuilding. But are they actually rebuilding effectively? Or are they on a path to perpetually suck while Gooter is there? I'm not so sure it's not the latter, although his R1 pick quality suggests if they keep doing that and resigning their guys they will at least be decent but never deep.

The team is ass right now because there are very few guys drafted deserving of second contracts:
2018 - 1 (Alexander)
2019 - 2 (Gary, Jenkins)
2020 - Maybe 1 (Love)
2021 - Maybe 1 (Stokes, Myers?)

Could they be bad because the entire O is on rookie deals? Could it be because Alexander keeps missing games? Could it be because we have a mountain of money tied to a LT that can't walk? Could a rookie kicker be the reason we aren't one win better (remember we didn't develop a new kicker while "winning now"). How about relying on entirely 1st and 2nd year pass catchers because we had to keep Lazard and Cobb around for "the last guy"? And Joe Barry....you can bitch about him, but he isn't why we lost the last 2.

..

[bobblehead]

7 games, plus a bye are enough to expect to see some signs of improvement. We are not seeing any. Doubs and Watson look worse than last year. Love's accuracy is not getting better, and the running game is weak, both in design and execution. Even if you think the players have the talent, the pathetic showing in the first half of every game shows a sever coaching problem that needs to be dealt with.

Young players are uneven. MiLF has proven himself over several seasons. We will take our lumps this year. Just the way it works. Remember how Tua looked as a first year starter with no one around him? We need an infusion of OL talent. The left side of the line got date raped vs. Denver. You won't be effective when that happens. The running game is weak in design? You are qualified to assess that? (maybe you are, but you haven't laid it out). This is the same "design" the 49ers and Rams run. The same design the Shannahans have run for decades. Basically the best design in pro football. We aren't executing right now because our LT and C can't run block. Meyers isn't even finding guys in space which was his strength coming out. I always told everyone that Baks best strength was how under rated he was as a run blocker. And honestly, if MiLF should be shot for anything its for his 3 year refusal to just let Yosh play. Replaced him 2x on the eve of the playoffs and lost. Now won't put him on the field despite the entire OL shitting themselves (ok, Tom has been mostly good, and Elgton was before last week).

[bobblehead]

Look at what I wrote - I didn't say Guter was a tire fire or anything like that. But I pointed out that his defensive and offensive lines - where the game is won - are not playing well. Offensively you can make a better argument that they'll get better, as Tom is a second year guy and Walker is, too - but the defensive line? Will a fourth and sixth round pick on the D-line show enough improvement to make that the kind of dominant unit you need? Probably not. And Wyatt, in his second year, seems to have not improved.

I'm not anti-Guter.I am saying he hasn't done so well in the trenches.

This is fair. I actually have faith in the DL as a whole. I think Wyatt is solid. Clark is over paid at this point. If I have to hear another announcer talk about how disruptive he is right after we gave up 3 straight 10 yard runs I'll need a new TV. I like the rooks for rooks. We will need a heavy infusion of big men in the very near future.

[bobblehead]

Not sure I can fault Gute on Bahk, as that was to placate Rodgers. I doubt Gute gives him the huge deal without the Rodgers dynamic.

His high end draft capital has been mediocre at best. To me, a really good GM will hit solid starter on more than 50% of his top 100 picks. Let’s review Gute…5* is great starter, 3* is solid starter, 1* is hot garbage

2018: Jaire 5*, Jackson 1*, Burks 1* (33%)
2019: Gary 5*, Savage 1*, Jenkins 5*, Sternburger 1* (50%)
2020: Love 3*, Dillon 3*, Deguara 1* (66%)
2021: Stokes 1*, Myers 1*, Rodgers 1* (0%)
2022: Walker 3*, Wyatt 1*, Watson 3*, Rhyan 1* (50%)

Really hasn’t hit on anything solid for several years. Quay has probably been his best pick since 2019. The jury is still kind of out on Love. I think he can be a solid starter, but that isn’t what you want at QB even if it works at other positions. Stokes pick may be one you don’t consider due to the injuries.

7 for 17 is a poor track record in the top 100.

Disagree on Stokes and Wyatt. Stokes got hurt, but was pretty good. Wyatt is a 3* and may still improve.

[bobblehead]

To be fair, Love was a late first round pick. Getting a starting QB that late isn't a sure thing, much less getting a good QB that can carry a team.

QBs that can carry a team are rare. Maybe 5-7 at any time. Then another 10 you can win with. There's always 10-15 QBs starting that you can't win with. Not a championship anyway. I think you can win with Love, but not on a big contract. Not if you ask him to carry a team.

[bobblehead]

How many of the completions hit the target in stride and didn't require the receiver to make a difficult adjustment?

How many dropped passes or wrong routes were there?

[bobblehead]

Most of these were short passes. He is constantly behind the receiver on deeper passes. He was behind both receivers on the touchdown passes. It was only great effort by Doubs to take the balk away from the defender on the first and absolute luck on the second that made this debacle close. That other elements of the offense suck doesn't change the fact that Love hasn't been playing good enough.

Was the 2nd luck, or should Doubs have caught that pass? It was hot, but it was right on target.

[sharpe1027]

How many dropped passes or wrong routes were there?

Dropped passes don't have an relevance whether or not the ball was delivered to the right location. Wrong routes could, but it didn't look like wrong routes to my amateur eyes.

[MadScientist]

Was the 2nd luck, or should Doubs have caught that pass? It was hot, but it was right on target.

2nd one was behind Doubs, and hot enough he couldn't react in time. If it was on the money and not caught, it would not have bounced in the direction it did.

[SkinBasket]

You guys crack me up…. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster.

LO Fucking L. He ain’t no “first year starter,” at QB. He’s had years to learn this shit where most 1st round picks get weeks. FUCKING WEEKS! Do you understand?! Love is a fucking failure. And THAT is the only thing holding this team back from being an interesting way to spend your Sunday free time. Love is literally the football equivalent of Joe Biden. He has been coached into a position that he has no business occupying.

[Bretsky]

How many dropped passes or wrong routes were there?

Who takes the fall ? Gutebag for not getting him a veteran who would know football ehought to run the right routes...aka...a security blanket....the coaching for the players perhaps not being ready, or the Love machine for lacking accuracy ?

[call_me_ishmael]

I mean the dudes are year two players. I think for the one dude he's third year even. I don't personally put a lot of stock in that - they had a whole year already. By year two of something, you are ramped up pretty well in the process.

They have a QB and coach that should be on their ass if they don't know their stuff. It isn't that hard.

[bobblehead]

Dropped passes don't have an relevance whether or not the ball was delivered to the right location. Wrong routes could, but it didn't look like wrong routes to my amateur eyes.

I saw one play that stood out (admittedly it was only one). There were 3 guys stacked within 5 yards of each other on the bottom of the screen where Love tried to throw it. I'll criticize him for not just throwing it away, but someone clearly wasn't where they were supposed to be.

Overall though I generally agree that he is behind a running target way too often. But he also isn't getting to set his feet and deliver a pass in rhythm. There have been flashes, although not enough.

[bobblehead]

LO Fucking L. He ain’t no “first year starter,” at QB. He’s had years to learn this shit where most 1st round picks get weeks. FUCKING WEEKS! Do you understand?! Love is a fucking failure. And THAT is the only thing holding this team back from being an interesting way to spend your Sunday free time. Love is literally the football equivalent of Joe Biden. He has been coached into a position that he has no business occupying.

Bringing up politics just hoping to get banned before you beclown yourself? He is clearly a first year starter. Not sure what your definition of that is if its not "the first year he is a starter". And unlike you, I'm addressing the GENERAL level of panic here, not obsessing over one aspect of it. You should come over to FYI, we need more discussion. Maybe a new perspective.

After week 2 the media was declaring we had found our 3rd HoF QB in a row. A few games later and he couldn't win a pee wee game. Its human nature I guess to over react to everything (or if you are Tex to think all is well despite every shred of evidence to the contrary).

[bobblehead]

2nd one was behind Doubs, and hot enough he couldn't react in time. If it was on the money and not caught, it would not have bounced in the direction it did.

A defender stood up and messed up the route. Love threw it to the spot it needed to be at a speed it needed to get there. Doubs would tell you he should have caught it. Given that it was a designed quick hit, the only other option Love had was to throw it into the dirt.