Reflections on Gooter

[bobblehead]

Most of these were short passes. He is constantly behind the receiver on deeper passes. He was behind both receivers on the touchdown passes. It was only great effort by Doubs to take the balk away from the defender on the first and absolute luck on the second that made this debacle close. That other elements of the offense suck doesn't change the fact that Love hasn't been playing good enough.

Was the 2nd luck, or should Doubs have caught that pass? It was hot, but it was right on target.

[bobblehead]

7 games, plus a bye are enough to expect to see some signs of improvement. We are not seeing any. Doubs and Watson look worse than last year. Love's accuracy is not getting better, and the running game is weak, both in design and execution. Even if you think the players have the talent, the pathetic showing in the first half of every game shows a sever coaching problem that needs to be dealt with.

Young players are uneven. MiLF has proven himself over several seasons. We will take our lumps this year. Just the way it works. Remember how Tua looked as a first year starter with no one around him? We need an infusion of OL talent. The left side of the line got date raped vs. Denver. You won't be effective when that happens. The running game is weak in design? You are qualified to assess that? (maybe you are, but you haven't laid it out). This is the same "design" the 49ers and Rams run. The same design the Shannahans have run for decades. Basically the best design in pro football. We aren't executing right now because our LT and C can't run block. Meyers isn't even finding guys in space which was his strength coming out. I always told everyone that Baks best strength was how under rated he was as a run blocker. And honestly, if MiLF should be shot for anything its for his 3 year refusal to just let Yosh play. Replaced him 2x on the eve of the playoffs and lost. Now won't put him on the field despite the entire OL shitting themselves (ok, Tom has been mostly good, and Elgton was before last week).

[Fritz]

You guys crack me up. We went all in and got back to back NFCC games. Got 3 straight 13 win seasons. The relationship with ARod was so damaged he won back to back MVPs.

Now we are paying the price for going all in several years to maximize the end of ARods career. In the process we traded 2 aging stars for premier picks. The offense is playing with about as low of a payroll as you possibly can because our All world LT has milked a contract they should have waived long ago.

How about we give our rookie and 2nd year skill guys a chance to improve. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster. And maybe a year to fix an OL that has been broken due to injuries. We could use a new bookend LT and a new center. That alone will go a long way to turn our 2 win team into a 4 win team at this point. SF blew chunks before turning it around. They aquired Trent Williams and drafted top 5 a couple times and are now the class of the NFC. If we finish with the 6 or 7 wins that Rodgers got his rookie season then I'll see light. Remember how frustrated we were at all the 6 yard outs on 3rd and 9 during Rodgers first year starting?? I do.

Look at what I wrote - I didn't say Guter was a tire fire or anything like that. But I pointed out that his defensive and offensive lines - where the game is won - are not playing well. Offensively you can make a better argument that they'll get better, as Tom is a second year guy and Walker is, too - but the defensive line? Will a fourth and sixth round pick on the D-line show enough improvement to make that the kind of dominant unit you need? Probably not. And Wyatt, in his second year, seems to have not improved.

I'm not anti-Guter.I am saying he hasn't done so well in the trenches.

[bobblehead]

Look at what I wrote - I didn't say Guter was a tire fire or anything like that. But I pointed out that his defensive and offensive lines - where the game is won - are not playing well. Offensively you can make a better argument that they'll get better, as Tom is a second year guy and Walker is, too - but the defensive line? Will a fourth and sixth round pick on the D-line show enough improvement to make that the kind of dominant unit you need? Probably not. And Wyatt, in his second year, seems to have not improved.

I'm not anti-Guter.I am saying he hasn't done so well in the trenches.

This is fair. I actually have faith in the DL as a whole. I think Wyatt is solid. Clark is over paid at this point. If I have to hear another announcer talk about how disruptive he is right after we gave up 3 straight 10 yard runs I'll need a new TV. I like the rooks for rooks. We will need a heavy infusion of big men in the very near future.

[SkinBasket]

You guys crack me up…. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster.

LO Fucking L. He ain’t no “first year starter,” at QB. He’s had years to learn this shit where most 1st round picks get weeks. FUCKING WEEKS! Do you understand?! Love is a fucking failure. And THAT is the only thing holding this team back from being an interesting way to spend your Sunday free time. Love is literally the football equivalent of Joe Biden. He has been coached into a position that he has no business occupying.

[bobblehead]

LO Fucking L. He ain’t no “first year starter,” at QB. He’s had years to learn this shit where most 1st round picks get weeks. FUCKING WEEKS! Do you understand?! Love is a fucking failure. And THAT is the only thing holding this team back from being an interesting way to spend your Sunday free time. Love is literally the football equivalent of Joe Biden. He has been coached into a position that he has no business occupying.

Bringing up politics just hoping to get banned before you beclown yourself? He is clearly a first year starter. Not sure what your definition of that is if its not "the first year he is a starter". And unlike you, I'm addressing the GENERAL level of panic here, not obsessing over one aspect of it. You should come over to FYI, we need more discussion. Maybe a new perspective.

After week 2 the media was declaring we had found our 3rd HoF QB in a row. A few games later and he couldn't win a pee wee game. Its human nature I guess to over react to everything (or if you are Tex to think all is well despite every shred of evidence to the contrary).

[smuggler]

I'm not so sure I can blame Gute. Kind of disappointed with LaFluer and (to a lesser extent) Love right now.

[Bretsky]

Gutebag built this team to absolutely dominate on defense via the NFL Draft. This has been an EPIC Failure.

Gutebag gave up both a 1st and 4th round draft pick on Love. At this point he looks like a disappointment. I think he might be OK; we don't want to pay for an OK quarterback.

I'm not calling for him to be fired, but any means. But he's average at best currently. 8 First rounders on defense and the results are not there.

Drafted a Center who he fell in love that was his guy wit....had everybody WTF .....did he get drunk and forgot Creed Humphrey has not been drafted yet ?
.
Broke the bank for a LT who he should've found a way to dump by now. Our OL is pretty disappointing this year

[sharpe1027]

.

Gutebag gave up both a 1st and 4th round draft pick on Love. At this point he looks like a disappointment. I think he might be OK; we don't want to pay for an OK quarterback.

To be fair, Love was a late first round pick. Getting a starting QB that late isn't a sure thing, much less getting a good QB that can carry a team.

[bobblehead]

To be fair, Love was a late first round pick. Getting a starting QB that late isn't a sure thing, much less getting a good QB that can carry a team.

QBs that can carry a team are rare. Maybe 5-7 at any time. Then another 10 you can win with. There's always 10-15 QBs starting that you can't win with. Not a championship anyway. I think you can win with Love, but not on a big contract. Not if you ask him to carry a team.

[King Friday]

Not sure I can fault Gute on Bahk, as that was to placate Rodgers. I doubt Gute gives him the huge deal without the Rodgers dynamic.

His high end draft capital has been mediocre at best. To me, a really good GM will hit solid starter on more than 50% of his top 100 picks. Let’s review Gute…5* is great starter, 3* is solid starter, 1* is hot garbage

2018: Jaire 5*, Jackson 1*, Burks 1* (33%)
2019: Gary 5*, Savage 1*, Jenkins 5*, Sternburger 1* (50%)
2020: Love 3*, Dillon 3*, Deguara 1* (66%)
2021: Stokes 1*, Myers 1*, Rodgers 1* (0%)
2022: Walker 3*, Wyatt 1*, Watson 3*, Rhyan 1* (50%)

Really hasn’t hit on anything solid for several years. Quay has probably been his best pick since 2019. The jury is still kind of out on Love. I think he can be a solid starter, but that isn’t what you want at QB even if it works at other positions. Stokes pick may be one you don’t consider due to the injuries.

7 for 17 is a poor track record in the top 100.

[call_me_ishmael]

Not sure I can fault Gute on Bahk, as that was to placate Rodgers. I doubt Gute gives him the huge deal without the Rodgers dynamic.

His high end draft capital has been mediocre at best. To me, a really good GM will hit solid starter on more than 50% of his top 100 picks. Let’s review Gute…5* is great starter, 3* is solid starter, 1* is hot garbage

2018: Jaire 5*, Jackson 1*, Burks 1* (33%)
2019: Gary 5*, Savage 1*, Jenkins 5*, Sternburger 1* (50%)
2020: Love 3*, Dillon 3*, Deguara 1* (66%)
2021: Stokes 1*, Myers 1*, Rodgers 1* (0%)
2022: Walker 3*, Wyatt 1*, Watson 3*, Rhyan 1* (50%)

Really hasn’t hit on anything solid for several years. Quay has probably been his best pick since 2019. The jury is still kind of out on Love. I think he can be a solid starter, but that isn’t what you want at QB even if it works at other positions. Stokes pick may be one you don’t consider due to the injuries.

7 for 17 is a poor track record in the top 100.

I sort of agree with you but I also think he should get credit that his R1 hits shine very brightly instead of being just good players. Both are top 5 type guys at their positions. That's pretty rare.

We don't talk enough about how AJ Dillon ran a 4.4 and now runs a 5.4

[bobblehead]

Not sure I can fault Gute on Bahk, as that was to placate Rodgers. I doubt Gute gives him the huge deal without the Rodgers dynamic.

His high end draft capital has been mediocre at best. To me, a really good GM will hit solid starter on more than 50% of his top 100 picks. Let’s review Gute…5* is great starter, 3* is solid starter, 1* is hot garbage

2018: Jaire 5*, Jackson 1*, Burks 1* (33%)
2019: Gary 5*, Savage 1*, Jenkins 5*, Sternburger 1* (50%)
2020: Love 3*, Dillon 3*, Deguara 1* (66%)
2021: Stokes 1*, Myers 1*, Rodgers 1* (0%)
2022: Walker 3*, Wyatt 1*, Watson 3*, Rhyan 1* (50%)

Really hasn’t hit on anything solid for several years. Quay has probably been his best pick since 2019. The jury is still kind of out on Love. I think he can be a solid starter, but that isn’t what you want at QB even if it works at other positions. Stokes pick may be one you don’t consider due to the injuries.

7 for 17 is a poor track record in the top 100.

Disagree on Stokes and Wyatt. Stokes got hurt, but was pretty good. Wyatt is a 3* and may still improve.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Elgton Jenkins is a two time Pro Bowler, he was a good pick. The GMs who took Metcalf and Brown in R2 also took LJ Collier and Andre Dillard in R1. EVERY GM passed on Deebo in R1.

As for Love, I preferred Jalen Hurts (more accurate in college, higher level of competition) to Jordan Love, but many scouts liked Love's arm and ability to play off-schedule. He was a Top 40 pick at a minimum. Picking a RB high is dicey at best; you don't do it unless you have a game-changer. That was the mistake with Dillon in R2. You can find dynamic or even serviceable RBs in Day 3, as has been proven by GB with Jamaal/AJones.

EVERY GM has swings and misses, just because you liked a player better that GB didn't take doesn't make the GM bad. Most people were WTF with Rodgers and Nick Collins

Would the Packers be a better team with Tom at LG, Nijman at RT and Metcalf and Brown at WR, or with the current lineup of Fucking Center at LG, Tom at RT and Christine and Doubs at WR?

Point is, the Packers wouldn’t miss a fucking beat with Tom playing LG instead of the “Pro Bowler” Fucking Center. Hell, Tom, a 4th rounder, is already a better tackle than the Fucking Center. Christine can’t hold Metcalf’s jockstrap. Doubs can’t hold Browns’ jockstrap.

Never use premium picks on Yokozunas.

[call_me_ishmael]

I mean the dudes are year two players. I think for the one dude he's third year even. I don't personally put a lot of stock in that - they had a whole year already. By year two of something, you are ramped up pretty well in the process.

They have a QB and coach that should be on their ass if they don't know their stuff. It isn't that hard.

[bobblehead]

I mean the dudes are year two players. I think for the one dude he's third year even. I don't personally put a lot of stock in that - they had a whole year already. By year two of something, you are ramped up pretty well in the process.

They have a QB and coach that should be on their ass if they don't know their stuff. It isn't that hard.

I was going to cut and paste a few stats from guys like Adams who couldn't break 500 yards through 2 seasons. Or Jordy who failed to reach 400 through 2 seasons. Or nearly any TE in history who couldn't get to 600 yards through 2 seasons. Or how awesome Mike Wahle or TJ Lang were as rooks. Or remind people of how things looked when Marshal Newhouse was forced into action due to injury.

Cutting and pasting doesn't work very well here, but you get the point. But for reference Watson had 600 and 7 scores as a rookie. Better than all in recent history other than Jennings who was similar as a rookie and broke out in year 2. For reference Tom looked better as a rookie than anyone I can recall except maybe Jenkins. He still should be a guard, but I digress.

[texaspackerbacker]

I pretty much agree with bobblehead. This poll is basically asking how bad you think it’s gonna be.There’s a lot of reasons to be optimistic about the offense (although those receiver comparisons have a lot to do with who else played the position at the time).

I say again, the problem pure and simple is Joe Barry. The only way either LaFleur or Gutekunst are gone is if they hang on too long to that piece of crap.

[MadScientist]

I pretty much agree with bobblehead. This poll is basically asking how bad you think it’s gonna be.There’s a lot of reasons to be optimistic about the offense (although those receiver comparisons have a lot to do with who else played the position at the time).

I say again, the problem pure and simple is Joe Barry. The only way either LaFleur or Gutekunst are gone is if they hang on too long to that piece of crap.

I'm not going to sing the defense's praises, but looking at the scoreboard, it's the offense that has been shitting the bed for the Packers. The strange thing is that they generally look decent coming out for the second half. It's the complete failure in the first half that is sinking them. The OC/MLF are not getting them prepared for the game. They should definitely be feeling the heat right now.

[run pMc]

I think most people thought this year would be rocky; are people surprised? I'm disgusted by some of the bad/ugly play execution (and some play calls), but I'm not surprised. Development/improvement of young players is not a linear thing.
This is a pretty low point for the team.
I think GB has better talent than LV or DEN and they lost to both.

If this team is garbage this year but grows into a perennial playoff contender in 2024 and beyond, does this year matter that much? The 2005 season was a tire fire, but it's easy to forget given the stretch that followed.

There are definitely things they can do this year to get better - the coaches and the players.
I don't think a lot of this is on Gute tbh, they tried to keep the Rodgers teams together as long as possible and this is the take-your-medicine year. They still have talent and will have some decent draft capital to continue to build (and hopefully a little more cap space).

There is no mid-season answer to their problems outside the building.

[Fritz]

I'm trying to imagine what I thought a 2 - 4 record would look like at this point. I think I was hoping for the defense to hold up and keep other teams at twenty or under - which they have, four of the six games. Yet I'm still disappointed in the defense - as Rasul Douglas has pointed out, if your defense is handed a lead and can't hold it, it doesn't matter that you held the other team to X points - you didn't hold the lead. So why am I disappointed? Because they don't seem to tackle well? Because they don't seem physical and tough? Heck, I don't know. Twenty points and under four games so far? On paper, not bad - though of course those were mostly shitty teams...

Offensively, I thought they'd look sloppy but show flashes. Have they done that? Have there been flashes? I'm a little nervous about Love's lack of accuracy - probably my biggest concern with the offense right now. The youngsters are making lots of mistakes, but they receivers and tight ends will get better at route running and blocking. Maybe Rasheed Walker will even develop? Maybe Tom will get better too as he settles in more? But Runyan and Myer have been pretty piss poor, and even Elgton Jenkins isn't looking as good as his contract. Don't know if playing hurt is part of that.

So I thought I was okay with a rough year, but maybe I'm not? I'm not sure how what I'm seeing is much different than what I thought I'd see, yet I'm still concerned. Hell, I don't know.