More Banjo - Packers vs. Steelers

[pittstang5]

DeGuara, if you're keeping score.

He should have been left in Pittsburgh or cut from the team last night. That play was inexcusable. He must have had his head up his ass.

On another note, this game could have went a totally different way if the extra point isn't blocked AND if the Refs would have called the backwards lateral a fumble - which to me, that was a fumble. That ball went backwards. The refs absolutely sucked. I think it was at least two drives were extended for the Steelers when on a 3rd down, Packer DBs were called for either PI or holding. One, if I remember correctly wasn't even catchable. It is what it is, nothing can be done now.

I did see some positives from the game. Love looked decent, but the drops from the receivers are killing this team.

[Joemailman]

Best, worst PFF grades:

Top 5 offense

1. LG Elgton Jenkins: 81.1
2. WR Jayden Reed: 79.1
3. QB Jordan Love: 77.8
4. C Josh Myers: 76.6
5. TE Luke Musgrave: 72.7

Jenkins gave up two pressures but still earned the team’s top pass-blocking grade. He was a dominant blocker in the run game. Reed caught all five of his targets, had a touchdown and a contested catch and finished with a perfect passer rating when targeted over 24 routes. Love hit a season-high five “big time throws” and was hugely productive pushing the ball downfield. Myers gave up a quarterback hit but earned an excellent run-blocking grade. Musgrave produced two explosive plays (28 yards, 36 yards) and got decent grades as a blocker.

Top 5 defense

1. OLB Rashan Gary: 81.4
2. DL Kenny Clark: 75.1
3. OLB Preston Smith: 73.0
4. CB Corey Ballentine: 71.0
5. LB Isaiah McDuffie: 69.8

Gary delivered just one pressure and one stop but he earned the defense’s top run-defending grade overall. Clark missed two tackles but also had three hurries and two stops against the run. Smith had a sack and three stops overall. Ballentine missed two tackles but allowed only four catches and broke up two passes. McDuffie missed two tackles but had four stops.

Bottom 5 offense

Nov 12, 2023; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA; Green Bay Packers wide receiver Christian Watson (9) cannot make a catch against Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Patrick Peterson (20) before being intercepted by safety Keanu Neal (31) during the fourth quarter at Acrisure Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Philip G. Pavely-USA TODAY Sports

1. TE Tucker Kraft: 43.2
2. WR Christian Watson: 54.3
3. RG Jon Runyan Jr.: 54.9
4. RB Aaron Jones: 58.5
5. LT Rasheed Walker: 61.0

Kraft ran 18 routes but caught just one pass and earned below average blocking grades. Watson caught just two of seven targets, produced 23 receiving yards on 34 routes run and had a drop. Runyan Jr. gave up a pressure, earned poor run-blocking grades and had a huge missed block on a screen pass to Jones. Speaking of Jones, he had a drop, managed just 19 yards on six targets and averaged 2.7 yards per rush. Walker gave up five pressures including a quarterback hit.


Bottom 5 defense

1. DL Colby Wooden: 29.3
2. DL T.J. Slaton: 40.5
3. OLB Lukas Van Ness: 48.0
4. CB Carrington Valentine: 50.0
5. S Jonathan Owens: 51.5

Wooden didn’t have a pressure over five pass-rushing snaps and earned the worst run-defending grade over five run defense snaps. Slaton had five stops against the run but graded out poorly against the run overall. Van Ness missed two tackles against the run and didn’t have a pressure over eight pass-rushing snaps. Valentine missed a tackle, gave up a 28-yard catch to George Pickens and was penalized 17 yards for pass interference on third down. Owens missed two tackles, was flagged for illegal contact and graded out poorly against the run.

[Fritz]

Best, worst PFF grades:

Top 5 offense

1. LG Elgton Jenkins: 81.1
2. WR Jayden Reed: 79.1
3. QB Jordan Love: 77.8
4. C Josh Myers: 76.6
5. TE Luke Musgrave: 72.7

Jenkins gave up two pressures but still earned the team’s top pass-blocking grade. He was a dominant blocker in the run game. Reed caught all five of his targets, had a touchdown and a contested catch and finished with a perfect passer rating when targeted over 24 routes. Love hit a season-high five “big time throws” and was hugely productive pushing the ball downfield. Myers gave up a quarterback hit but earned an excellent run-blocking grade. Musgrave produced two explosive plays (28 yards, 36 yards) and got decent grades as a blocker.

Top 5 defense

1. OLB Rashan Gary: 81.4
2. DL Kenny Clark: 75.1
3. OLB Preston Smith: 73.0
4. CB Corey Ballentine: 71.0
5. LB Isaiah McDuffie: 69.8

Gary delivered just one pressure and one stop but he earned the defense’s top run-defending grade overall. Clark missed two tackles but also had three hurries and two stops against the run. Smith had a sack and three stops overall. Ballentine missed two tackles but allowed only four catches and broke up two passes. McDuffie missed two tackles but had four stops.

Bottom 5 offense

Nov 12, 2023; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA; Green Bay Packers wide receiver Christian Watson (9) cannot make a catch against Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Patrick Peterson (20) before being intercepted by safety Keanu Neal (31) during the fourth quarter at Acrisure Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Philip G. Pavely-USA TODAY Sports

1. TE Tucker Kraft: 43.2
2. WR Christian Watson: 54.3
3. RG Jon Runyan Jr.: 54.9
4. RB Aaron Jones: 58.5
5. LT Rasheed Walker: 61.0

Kraft ran 18 routes but caught just one pass and earned below average blocking grades. Watson caught just two of seven targets, produced 23 receiving yards on 34 routes run and had a drop. Runyan Jr. gave up a pressure, earned poor run-blocking grades and had a huge missed block on a screen pass to Jones. Speaking of Jones, he had a drop, managed just 19 yards on six targets and averaged 2.7 yards per rush. Walker gave up five pressures including a quarterback hit.


Bottom 5 defense

1. DL Colby Wooden: 29.3
2. DL T.J. Slaton: 40.5
3. OLB Lukas Van Ness: 48.0
4. CB Carrington Valentine: 50.0
5. S Jonathan Owens: 51.5

Wooden didn’t have a pressure over five pass-rushing snaps and earned the worst run-defending grade over five run defense snaps. Slaton had five stops against the run but graded out poorly against the run overall. Van Ness missed two tackles against the run and didn’t have a pressure over eight pass-rushing snaps. Valentine missed a tackle, gave up a 28-yard catch to George Pickens and was penalized 17 yards for pass interference on third down. Owens missed two tackles, was flagged for illegal contact and graded out poorly against the run.

I would like to be the first to nickname Tucker Kraft as "Tucker Krapt," as he has shit the bed, over and over this year. I don't see any improvement there so far. Wasn't he, uh, a third round pick...?

Also, is Joe Barely going to end up getting a pass cuz so many defenders have been out? I hope not, because the defensive line has been healthy, and McDuffie has played pretty well for Walker, and they STILL can't stop the run. I've decided that the team needs to hire a sculptor to make a bust of Devonte Wyatt cuz that's what he's turning into...and TJ Slaton is just a JAG. They need someone who is a true nose tackle who can control the middle of the line. Kenny Clark is losing his mojo - not having a great year - and Colby looks wooden. Karl Brooks is the most promising of the bunch. Yet I fear that all this will get Joe Barely a pass, and he's not a guy who deserves that.

And Christian . . . Twatson. Sorry, Harv, I know you like that guy and he's a good guy and all, but he's being outplayed by Wicks, Reed, and probably Doubs. Ouch for a guy they gave up picks to move up and get. Like Jason Spriggs for TT. And now his family is on X or Twatter or whatever they call it, 'splaining why it ain't his fault. Okay. Okay. We know you love him, and we'll give him through next year (Devonte Adams didn't really "get it" until his third year), but you can't blame us fans for at least wondering WTF.

[texaspackerbacker]

Some of those PFF things make sense, some do not - about 50/50 I'd say.

I'll give Fritz a slightly better rating - maybe 60/40 or 70/30. Watson is a disappointment, although his dad is partly right, it's still early. The big fuck up with him - the interception near the end - was blatant pass interference, not his fault, although some receivers woulda gone up and grabbed it anyway. All those others are off to good starts and doing better now, but Watson still has a super high ceiling. Slaton is probably performing as good or better than expected considering where we got him. I've been thinking mostly positive about Wooden, and Brooks of course too. I think about 95% of the D Line problem is Joe Barry - make that 95-100% of the D problems in general.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Some of those PFF things make sense, some do not - about 50/50 I'd say.

I'll give Fritz a slightly better rating - maybe 60/40 or 70/30. Watson is a disappointment, although his dad is partly right, it's still early. The big fuck up with him - the interception near the end - was blatant pass interference, not his fault, although some receivers woulda gone up and grabbed it anyway. All those others are off to good starts and doing better now, but Watson still has a super high ceiling. Slaton is probably performing as good or better than expected considering where we got him. I've been thinking mostly positive about Wooden, and Brooks of course too. I think about 95% of the D Line problem is Joe Barry - make that 95-100% of the D problems in general.

PFF ratings are “calculated” by math nerds who ain’t ever played a down of futbol in their lives. Alotta the nerds have gotta be Mongoloids, cos, and this ain’t got nothing to do with the math stereotypes of Mongoloids, PFF seems unable to tell the differences between two white panthers, err, tight ends.

Kraft played a tons on offense cos Musgrave couldn’t block worth a fuck. Even the CBS color guy mentioned something about Musgrave, despite his superior threat as a pass catcher relatively to the other white tight ends on the roster, being on the bench due to a poor run block that got Jones fucked for a loss.

Cletidus was primarily the reason the Lumpensteelers ran up and down the Packers’ rear end for 200+ yards. Is asking a Yokozuna who’s being paid $18M a year to at least be average against the run too much of a burden?

Love had TWO chances to win the fucking game in the clutch. He excreted out infamy both times.

[Fritz]

PFF ratings are “calculated” by math nerds who ain’t ever played a down of futbol in their lives. Alotta the nerds have gotta be Mongoloids, cos, and this ain’t got nothing to do with the math stereotypes of Mongoloids, PFF seems unable to tell the differences between two white panthers, err, tight ends.

Kraft played a tons on offense cos Musgrave couldn’t block worth a fuck. Even the CBS color guy mentioned something about Musgrave, despite his superior threat as a pass catcher relatively to the other white tight ends on the roster, being on the bench due to a poor run block that got Jones fucked for a loss.

Cletidus was primarily the reason the Lumpensteelers ran up and down the Packers’ rear end for 200+ yards. Is asking a Yokozuna who’s being paid $18M a year to at least be average against the run too much of a burden?

Love had TWO chances to win the fucking game in the clutch. He excreted out infamy both times.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...atson-musgrave

Here you go, oh lover of Doubs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Kraft all along was supposed to be a good blocker. I didn't see much stand out either good or bad from him in the Steelers game. I'm thinking he played more because Musgrave was slightly injured.

Maybe Clark is a problem against the run, but I say again, JOE BARRY IS TO BLAME. Instead of having his D Linemen play off blocks and go after ball carriers, he uses them like damn O Linemen, trying to neutralized blockers and let the ILBs make the tackles - I think because he used to be an ILB coach. I don't like that style of defense, and the way the Packers are against the run seems to show that the scheme sucks.

And APB, what I remember of the real Cletidus, he was all about penetration and letting people run right past him. Whatever bad you think about Clark, he is at worst, a different variety of bad.

[run pMc]

On the PAT block, look at how PIT was lined up. They had overloaded that side of the line, and word is GB hasn't changed up the snap count on PATs -- when Whelan raises his hand the ball is snapped, so PIT scouted this and got it right. Deguara and Walker had to block 3-4 guys who knew the snap count -- that's not setting one up for success.

As for Kraft, he's inconsistent but starting to get it. I think they are going to force feed him snaps over Sims or anyone else at this point. He had a really nice block on the 40 yard Dillon run. First year TEs from a small school should be allowed a little time to figure things out, I think he will. I like Kraft as a prospect and thiink he could pan out with patience and good coaching.

Wouldn't blame Kenny too much, he was carted off last week and he came back -- likely early -- with a bad shoulder to take on double teams. Getting mauled by 600+ pounds with a bum shoulder has gotta be tough, down in and down out. Clark does seem to fade late in games this season and I think the tread on the tires is starting to wear down. He needs help on the DL, Wyatt shows flashes but the clock is ticking. Slaton looks like a good player though. Brooks is much better than Wooden right now which is interesting given their schools and draft status.

Kenny Clark is not Cletidus. Different players. You can complain about DTs and call them fat sumos, but if you have an above average one like Kenny they get paid. That's just the NFL. Plenty of Tyler Lancasters and Dean Lowrys out there, you'd rather not have a roster full of them.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...atson-musgrave

Here you go, oh lover of Doubs.

Dumb article by a clueless fan.

I bet the All-22 films show Doubs getting open consistently. QB either ain’t targeting Doubs, like, the redzone 3rd down incompletion to Musgraves vs the Lumpensteelers (Doubs was open in end zone), and the would be “dagger” vs the team from the lost city of Atlanta where Love threw a bomb at a well covered Wicks instead of a wide open Doubs; or when the QB actually targets Doubs, QB’s missing by a mile due to poor accuracy - see every one of Doubs target in the Asses of Denver game.

Unless Love turns shit into gold in the remaining games, Doubs’ a perfect example of a case of “be careful what you wish for.” Butte is demanding, especially of rookies. Doubs was like, I am sick of the old man berating me; glad he’s gone - Love has got it. Nowadays, Doubs has a “are you fucking shitting me” look on his face every game.

[bobblehead]

doubs = driver

watsons best asset is his top end speed, which is completely useless is the QB can't throw the ball down field.

and i agree, he doesn't play like he's 6'4. i also am starting to get the MVS vibe

Watson's 10 yard split was elite as well. A nice final play against that D the steelers lined up would have been Watson on top of screen taking a slant and running across the field to the opposite pylon with all the guys on the bottom of the screen walling off that angle. What we ran made no sense. They need to use Watsons gifts. Hit him on crossers and slants. Give him a few end arounds.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

On the PAT block, look at how PIT was lined up. They had overloaded that side of the line, and word is GB hasn't changed up the snap count on PATs -- when Whelan raises his hand the ball is snapped, so PIT scouted this and got it right. Deguara and Walker had to block 3-4 guys who knew the snap count -- that's not setting one up for success.

As for Kraft, he's inconsistent but starting to get it. I think they are going to force feed him snaps over Sims or anyone else at this point. He had a really nice block on the 40 yard Dillon run. First year TEs from a small school should be allowed a little time to figure things out, I think he will. I like Kraft as a prospect and thiink he could pan out with patience and good coaching.

Wouldn't blame Kenny too much, he was carted off last week and he came back -- likely early -- with a bad shoulder to take on double teams. Getting mauled by 600+ pounds with a bum shoulder has gotta be tough, down in and down out. Clark does seem to fade late in games this season and I think the tread on the tires is starting to wear down. He needs help on the DL, Wyatt shows flashes but the clock is ticking. Slaton looks like a good player though. Brooks is much better than Wooden right now which is interesting given their schools and draft status.

Kenny Clark is not Cletidus. Different players. You can complain about DTs and call them fat sumos, but if you have an above average one like Kenny they get paid. That's just the NFL. Plenty of Tyler Lancasters and Dean Lowrys out there, you'd rather not have a roster full of them.

Statistically, Clark ain’t any better than Lowry. Fact that opponents continue to run up the “guts” where Clark roams is proof that Clark doesn’t strike fear in anyone as a run defender. Pass rush? What pass rush? Cletitus ain’t got no pass rush kung fu, hombre.

Btw, Cletidus Hunt was actually a solid player, peaking in 2002. Could stonewall a RB with ease and had the quickness to pressure a QB. Then Hunt got paid (yes, by Sherman) and started dancing with a chick named Lazy.

[bobblehead]

Meh...the gist of that article is that Doubs is still young and makes some mistakes. He needs to elevate his understanding of where the soft spots in the zone are.

[bobblehead]

My quick take is something like this. We scheme to give up 200 yards...not specifically to do so, but the scheme ensures it as long as the offense tries to do it. Jenkins was a road grader. Walker negated some of that by being a terrible run blocker. Myers looked decent, but Runyan was getting rolled so fast that Myers never had many chances to fail. Jones is getting up there for a RB and looked like a guy who is almost 29 and had over 20 touches the previous game. Love was better with better protection, but still has a lot to improve on. Watson is being misused.

Now I'll give Bretsky a chubby. This team needs Marvin Jr. We have a lot of nice WRs, but we need that black hole that sucks all defenders towards himself. Love has done a nice job spreading it around, but give him that one guy that strikes terror into a D and it elevates everyone. Tua added Hill and look what happened to everyone else (including Tua). We still need at least one OT as well. Latavius Murry proved my point again about serviceable RBs being available all the time. This guy gets kicked from team to team and simply produces every time he is called on. If I had my way for 2024 I'd re sign Yosh and line up Yosh, Jenkins, Tom then have a battle royal for the right side. Guys we have, draft picks, and a FA or 2. They won't do that of course, which complicates things. You could also get away with Jenkins, Tom, Myers, Runyan, Walker with both those right side spots up for grabs. Oh, and go get a real DC.

[Bretsky]

Now I'll give Bretsky a chubby. This team needs Marvin Jr. We have a lot of nice WRs, but we need that black hole that sucks all defenders towards himself. Love has done a nice job spreading it around, but give him that one guy that strikes terror into a D and it elevates everyone. Tua added Hill and look what happened to everyone else (including Tua). We still need at least one OT as well. Latavius Murry proved my point again about serviceable RBs being available all the time. This guy gets kicked from team to team and simply produces every time he is called on. If I had my way for 2024 I'd re sign Yosh and line up Yosh, Jenkins, Tom then have a battle royal for the right side. Guys we have, draft picks, and a FA or 2. They won't do that of course, which complicates things. You could also get away with Jenkins, Tom, Myers, Runyan, Walker with both those right side spots up for grabs. Oh, and go get a real DC.

[run pMc]

Dumb article by a clueless fan.

I bet the All-22 films show Doubs getting open consistently. QB either ain’t targeting Doubs, like, the redzone 3rd down incompletion to Musgraves vs the Lumpensteelers (Doubs was open in end zone), and the would be “dagger” vs the team from the lost city of Atlanta where Love threw a bomb at a well covered Wicks instead of a wide open Doubs; or when the QB actually targets Doubs, QB’s missing by a mile due to poor accuracy - see every one of Doubs target in the Asses of Denver game.

Unless Love turns shit into gold in the remaining games, Doubs’ a perfect example of a case of “be careful what you wish for.” Butte is demanding, especially of rookies. Doubs was like, I am sick of the old man berating me; glad he’s gone - Love has got it. Nowadays, Doubs has a “are you fucking shitting me” look on his face every game.

I don't know, I think the article makes some valid points. His success rate and catch % are bad. He struggles vs. press and doesn't give you much YAC. They'd be more efficient as an offense throwing to Musgrave, if you go off the numbers.

[Fritz]

The thing is that we have to be patient with these guys. It's hard - it's hard for me - but they're still so young. But if you look up the ladder, I think Guter better have a playoff contender in '25 or he needs to be shown the door. He's in, what, his sixth year? And sure, he tried to go the "all in" route with Rodgers, but he'd better show his mettle in the next two years with all the draft picks. I'd say, at the moment, Devonte Wyatt is making him look worse than Jordan Love is.

[Guiness]

He should have been left in Pittsburgh or cut from the team last night. That play was inexcusable. He must have had his head up his ass.

On another note, this game could have went a totally different way if the extra point isn't blocked AND if the Refs would have called the backwards lateral a fumble - which to me, that was a fumble. That ball went backwards. The refs absolutely sucked. I think it was at least two drives were extended for the Steelers when on a 3rd down, Packer DBs were called for either PI or holding. One, if I remember correctly wasn't even catchable. It is what it is, nothing can be done now.

I did see some positives from the game. Love looked decent, but the drops from the receivers are killing this team.

in hindsight, this looks to have been on the long snapper. I saw a clip of the play, Deguara and Musgrave both didn't move until well after the ball was snapped, and a lot of the OL looked like they were reacting to the DL moving! I think the LS went a beat early

[Joemailman]

Maybe means nothing, but WR's/TE's from Michigan St., Oregon St., and Virginia seem to be developing faster than guys from South Dakota St., North Dakota St. And Nevada.

[bobblehead]

Maybe means nothing, but WR's/TE's from Michigan St., Oregon St., and Virginia seem to be developing faster than guys from South Dakota St., North Dakota St. And Nevada.

I'd say it means a lot....it also means don't give up on the small school guys just yet.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe means nothing, but WR's/TE's from Michigan St., Oregon St., and Virginia seem to be developing faster than guys from South Dakota St., North Dakota St. And Nevada.

There's one recently from Wisconsin who's doing pretty damn good this season too.