Not sure what point you're trying to make, but Watson is 14-236-1.Originally Posted by Fosco33
Not sure what point you're trying to make, but Watson is 14-236-1.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Red’s comment on MVS vibes matches w/ the stat lines
Getting rid of Joe Barry would make a helluva huge difference. A LOT of D players did fairly decent jobs. It's just the scheme that sucks so bad. Other teams with way less talent play way better D. That's on God damned Barry!
I say again, Love is doing a decent job, and he's gonna be an excellent QB going forward. If we'd won, I was planning on rubbing ya'all haters' noses in it about him. As it is, he still is worthy of praise.
LaFleur seems to have stepped up his game on play calling the last couple of games. Yeah, the receivers are doing good. Dillon is sort of winning me over. There's a lot to love about Aaron Jones, but I'm coming around to the point of view that he's replaceable. That's after seeing a lot of good speed RBs around the league and coming out of colleges.
The young kicker better step it up too, as looking around the league as well as the NCAA, good kickers just don't seem to be all that hard to find.
And the Packers special teams may not be quite as bad as in the past, but they still aren't very good. I have to blame coaching on that too.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
Recall most packer fans were down on Adams for years before he became great. Ie, many of these young guns in year 3-4-5 might be pro bowlers.
Watson is a great athlete who is being thrust into the WR1 role before he's ready. Dude sometimes runs routes like he's still learning the route tree. Playing for NDSU, he could just outrun the defense, he hasn't had to work on other things. He's being forced to do that and struggling, which isn't that surprising. Contested catches were never a big part of his game, I wouldn't expect him to be Megatron overnight. Watson might turn into something, or he might be MVS part 2 (or Torrey Smith, if you prefer). You still need guys who can threaten a defense deep, so he has value even if two R2 picks might end up being way too steep a price.
Doubs is good, but I think he's a solid WR3 type. His hands aren't as good as some make them to be. ALL the WRs need work on drops and catching the ball with a DB swiping at you. Hand strength is a thing.
Wicks looks like he could be a good WR2, not much speed but he can separate and that matters big time in the pros.
Reed is more like Cobb, I don't think he's that similar to Jennings tbh.
They need a RAC guy like a Deebo/Aiyuk or AJ Brown. Shanahan offenses like their play action deep shots, but they also have WRs who eat by catching a 7 yard throw and turning it into 15. Does GB have a player that can do that on this team?
Musgrave should absolutely not be used on DickRod routes where it's 3yards and break a tackle. That's not his game... he's a seam buster or a wheel or deep over route guy who can burn a LB or S in coverage. Maybe Tucker Kraft figures out the game and can do the DickRod stuff and gain YAC, he did some of that in college but his mind has been spinning making the jump from SDSU to GB.
All these guys need to continue to improve, I wouldn't call any of them busts. J'Mon Moore was a bust...these guys have at least shown something to leave us wanting more.
Best, worst PFF grades:
Top 5 offense
1. LG Elgton Jenkins: 81.1
2. WR Jayden Reed: 79.1
3. QB Jordan Love: 77.8
4. C Josh Myers: 76.6
5. TE Luke Musgrave: 72.7
Jenkins gave up two pressures but still earned the team’s top pass-blocking grade. He was a dominant blocker in the run game. Reed caught all five of his targets, had a touchdown and a contested catch and finished with a perfect passer rating when targeted over 24 routes. Love hit a season-high five “big time throws” and was hugely productive pushing the ball downfield. Myers gave up a quarterback hit but earned an excellent run-blocking grade. Musgrave produced two explosive plays (28 yards, 36 yards) and got decent grades as a blocker.
Top 5 defense
1. OLB Rashan Gary: 81.4
2. DL Kenny Clark: 75.1
3. OLB Preston Smith: 73.0
4. CB Corey Ballentine: 71.0
5. LB Isaiah McDuffie: 69.8
Gary delivered just one pressure and one stop but he earned the defense’s top run-defending grade overall. Clark missed two tackles but also had three hurries and two stops against the run. Smith had a sack and three stops overall. Ballentine missed two tackles but allowed only four catches and broke up two passes. McDuffie missed two tackles but had four stops.
Bottom 5 offense
Nov 12, 2023; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA; Green Bay Packers wide receiver Christian Watson (9) cannot make a catch against Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Patrick Peterson (20) before being intercepted by safety Keanu Neal (31) during the fourth quarter at Acrisure Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Philip G. Pavely-USA TODAY Sports
1. TE Tucker Kraft: 43.2
2. WR Christian Watson: 54.3
3. RG Jon Runyan Jr.: 54.9
4. RB Aaron Jones: 58.5
5. LT Rasheed Walker: 61.0
Kraft ran 18 routes but caught just one pass and earned below average blocking grades. Watson caught just two of seven targets, produced 23 receiving yards on 34 routes run and had a drop. Runyan Jr. gave up a pressure, earned poor run-blocking grades and had a huge missed block on a screen pass to Jones. Speaking of Jones, he had a drop, managed just 19 yards on six targets and averaged 2.7 yards per rush. Walker gave up five pressures including a quarterback hit.
Bottom 5 defense
1. DL Colby Wooden: 29.3
2. DL T.J. Slaton: 40.5
3. OLB Lukas Van Ness: 48.0
4. CB Carrington Valentine: 50.0
5. S Jonathan Owens: 51.5
Wooden didn’t have a pressure over five pass-rushing snaps and earned the worst run-defending grade over five run defense snaps. Slaton had five stops against the run but graded out poorly against the run overall. Van Ness missed two tackles against the run and didn’t have a pressure over eight pass-rushing snaps. Valentine missed a tackle, gave up a 28-yard catch to George Pickens and was penalized 17 yards for pass interference on third down. Owens missed two tackles, was flagged for illegal contact and graded out poorly against the run.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
I would like to be the first to nickname Tucker Kraft as "Tucker Krapt," as he has shit the bed, over and over this year. I don't see any improvement there so far. Wasn't he, uh, a third round pick...?
Also, is Joe Barely going to end up getting a pass cuz so many defenders have been out? I hope not, because the defensive line has been healthy, and McDuffie has played pretty well for Walker, and they STILL can't stop the run. I've decided that the team needs to hire a sculptor to make a bust of Devonte Wyatt cuz that's what he's turning into...and TJ Slaton is just a JAG. They need someone who is a true nose tackle who can control the middle of the line. Kenny Clark is losing his mojo - not having a great year - and Colby looks wooden. Karl Brooks is the most promising of the bunch. Yet I fear that all this will get Joe Barely a pass, and he's not a guy who deserves that.
And Christian . . . Twatson. Sorry, Harv, I know you like that guy and he's a good guy and all, but he's being outplayed by Wicks, Reed, and probably Doubs. Ouch for a guy they gave up picks to move up and get. Like Jason Spriggs for TT. And now his family is on X or Twatter or whatever they call it, 'splaining why it ain't his fault. Okay. Okay. We know you love him, and we'll give him through next year (Devonte Adams didn't really "get it" until his third year), but you can't blame us fans for at least wondering WTF.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Some of those PFF things make sense, some do not - about 50/50 I'd say.
I'll give Fritz a slightly better rating - maybe 60/40 or 70/30. Watson is a disappointment, although his dad is partly right, it's still early. The big fuck up with him - the interception near the end - was blatant pass interference, not his fault, although some receivers woulda gone up and grabbed it anyway. All those others are off to good starts and doing better now, but Watson still has a super high ceiling. Slaton is probably performing as good or better than expected considering where we got him. I've been thinking mostly positive about Wooden, and Brooks of course too. I think about 95% of the D Line problem is Joe Barry - make that 95-100% of the D problems in general.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
PFF ratings are “calculated” by math nerds who ain’t ever played a down of futbol in their lives. Alotta the nerds have gotta be Mongoloids, cos, and this ain’t got nothing to do with the math stereotypes of Mongoloids, PFF seems unable to tell the differences between two white panthers, err, tight ends.
Kraft played a tons on offense cos Musgrave couldn’t block worth a fuck. Even the CBS color guy mentioned something about Musgrave, despite his superior threat as a pass catcher relatively to the other white tight ends on the roster, being on the bench due to a poor run block that got Jones fucked for a loss.
Cletidus was primarily the reason the Lumpensteelers ran up and down the Packers’ rear end for 200+ yards. Is asking a Yokozuna who’s being paid $18M a year to at least be average against the run too much of a burden?
Love had TWO chances to win the fucking game in the clutch. He excreted out infamy both times.
I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...atson-musgrave
Here you go, oh lover of Doubs.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Kraft all along was supposed to be a good blocker. I didn't see much stand out either good or bad from him in the Steelers game. I'm thinking he played more because Musgrave was slightly injured.
Maybe Clark is a problem against the run, but I say again, JOE BARRY IS TO BLAME. Instead of having his D Linemen play off blocks and go after ball carriers, he uses them like damn O Linemen, trying to neutralized blockers and let the ILBs make the tackles - I think because he used to be an ILB coach. I don't like that style of defense, and the way the Packers are against the run seems to show that the scheme sucks.
And APB, what I remember of the real Cletidus, he was all about penetration and letting people run right past him. Whatever bad you think about Clark, he is at worst, a different variety of bad.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
On the PAT block, look at how PIT was lined up. They had overloaded that side of the line, and word is GB hasn't changed up the snap count on PATs -- when Whelan raises his hand the ball is snapped, so PIT scouted this and got it right. Deguara and Walker had to block 3-4 guys who knew the snap count -- that's not setting one up for success.
As for Kraft, he's inconsistent but starting to get it. I think they are going to force feed him snaps over Sims or anyone else at this point. He had a really nice block on the 40 yard Dillon run. First year TEs from a small school should be allowed a little time to figure things out, I think he will. I like Kraft as a prospect and thiink he could pan out with patience and good coaching.
Wouldn't blame Kenny too much, he was carted off last week and he came back -- likely early -- with a bad shoulder to take on double teams. Getting mauled by 600+ pounds with a bum shoulder has gotta be tough, down in and down out. Clark does seem to fade late in games this season and I think the tread on the tires is starting to wear down. He needs help on the DL, Wyatt shows flashes but the clock is ticking. Slaton looks like a good player though. Brooks is much better than Wooden right now which is interesting given their schools and draft status.
Kenny Clark is not Cletidus. Different players. You can complain about DTs and call them fat sumos, but if you have an above average one like Kenny they get paid. That's just the NFL. Plenty of Tyler Lancasters and Dean Lowrys out there, you'd rather not have a roster full of them.
Dumb article by a clueless fan.
I bet the All-22 films show Doubs getting open consistently. QB either ain’t targeting Doubs, like, the redzone 3rd down incompletion to Musgraves vs the Lumpensteelers (Doubs was open in end zone), and the would be “dagger” vs the team from the lost city of Atlanta where Love threw a bomb at a well covered Wicks instead of a wide open Doubs; or when the QB actually targets Doubs, QB’s missing by a mile due to poor accuracy - see every one of Doubs target in the Asses of Denver game.
Unless Love turns shit into gold in the remaining games, Doubs’ a perfect example of a case of “be careful what you wish for.” Butte is demanding, especially of rookies. Doubs was like, I am sick of the old man berating me; glad he’s gone - Love has got it. Nowadays, Doubs has a “are you fucking shitting me” look on his face every game.
I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.
I don't know, I think the article makes some valid points. His success rate and catch % are bad. He struggles vs. press and doesn't give you much YAC. They'd be more efficient as an offense throwing to Musgrave, if you go off the numbers.
Statistically, Clark ain’t any better than Lowry. Fact that opponents continue to run up the “guts” where Clark roams is proof that Clark doesn’t strike fear in anyone as a run defender. Pass rush? What pass rush? Cletitus ain’t got no pass rush kung fu, hombre.
Btw, Cletidus Hunt was actually a solid player, peaking in 2002. Could stonewall a RB with ease and had the quickness to pressure a QB. Then Hunt got paid (yes, by Sherman) and started dancing with a chick named Lazy.
I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.
Meh...the gist of that article is that Doubs is still young and makes some mistakes. He needs to elevate his understanding of where the soft spots in the zone are.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
The thing is that we have to be patient with these guys. It's hard - it's hard for me - but they're still so young. But if you look up the ladder, I think Guter better have a playoff contender in '25 or he needs to be shown the door. He's in, what, his sixth year? And sure, he tried to go the "all in" route with Rodgers, but he'd better show his mettle in the next two years with all the draft picks. I'd say, at the moment, Devonte Wyatt is making him look worse than Jordan Love is.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Maybe means nothing, but WR's/TE's from Michigan St., Oregon St., and Virginia seem to be developing faster than guys from South Dakota St., North Dakota St. And Nevada.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
I'd say it means a lot....it also means don't give up on the small school guys just yet.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
That, and don't expect much early or overdraft them because they just might not be ready for a while
LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?
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