*Breaking News* N. Korea Claims Successful Nuclear Test

[digitaldean]

The unfortunate part if nothing is done and N. Korea keeps progressing with nukes is that there will be probably be proliferation of nukes in the Far East.

There has been discussion already of Japan repealing part of their constitution to allow them to pursue nuclear weapon technology. It will only get worse if nothing gets done.

The test may have possibly been a dud. It may not have. Kim may be rattling his saber just to get more goods from the west.

Yes, playing it cool will help the situation. But there does have to come a point and time when the rubber meets the road and this has to get resolved. It's dragged on for nearly 8 years.

No, military options aren't the answer at this stage. But there will have to be something done and soon. Unfortunately, here's another despot who's willing to use his citizens as sacrificial pawns in all of this.

That's not avoiding playing it cool. That's just stating a fact.

[Deputy Nutz]

Christ, I betcha 17 year old high school Physics students could put together a nuclear bomb given the right equipment. It took N. Korea 60 plus years to just get the basics down. My only fear with N. Korea is selling the technology to a terrorist group.

I agree with Tarlam, why should one country with the bomb tell another country not to have it? Now when the bomb can go from a state to a an individual then there is a problem and you have to be proactive about stopping a transfer like that to happen.

[Fosco33]

Christ, I betcha 17 year old high school Physics students could put together a nuclear bomb given the right equipment. It took N. Korea 60 plus years to just get the basics down. My only fear with N. Korea is selling the technology to a terrorist group.

I agree with Tarlam, why should one country with the bomb tell another country not to have it? Now when the bomb can go from a state to a an individual then there is a problem and you have to be proactive about stopping a transfer like that to happen.

The insane beauty of nuclear or bio weapons is the assured destruction of property and life - on either side. If country A has the weapon and B does not, A must use restraint. If both countries possess the technology, MAD applies.

If a terrorist uses the weapon, who do you retaliate against? There is no retribution or retaliation that can assure no future attack occurs.

Another insane beauty of this technology is the unique identification of nuclear waste. If N Korea decided to get into WMD sales and a terrorist act occurs (or a weapon is found) that can be tied back to reactors in NK (through intelligence and monitoring) - they are completely screwed.

If the isolated kid down the block wants to barricade himself from the world and not play with the other kids (even the crazy ones) with a big baseball bat, who cares? Let him be...

Now, the bigger issue is that Iran is watching all this go down. They'll see UN sanctions likely be imposed on N Korea and maybe continue to go along w/ nuclear development w/ monitoring. Or, they could develop one in secret - that's the scarier part to me...

[Fosco33]

fizzle......

Korean test 'went wrong,' U.S. official says-

The U.S. believes North Korea tried to detonate a nuclear device and "something went wrong," a government official told CNN Tuesday. The official confirmed North Korea told China before the test that it would be a 4 kiloton device. The official added the unexpectedly small blast, of a half kiloton or less, indicates the test was not very successful.

[woodbuck27]

"I know America isn't interested in nuclear warfare. But, what if that changed? What if you elected a guy that not only went to war, but, went to nuclear war? ' Tarlam!

What's your point based "in reality" man.

We don't live in a movie script Tarlam!.

We live "in reality"Tarlam!, and such a man as President (as you suggest could exist) would be impeached or otherwise forced from his office... as President of the United States of America.

To even consider such a possibility of a man being the Head of State of the most important Nation in the World; and linking that to a suggestion of him being insane...is hardly realistic therefore moot.

[woodbuck27]

" I am more than willing to go the extra mile to get something done diplomatically. Even if Lil Kim's nuclear test was a dud, military options aren't the way to go yet. With only 30-odd thousand US troops in the DMZ and ONLY a million or so DPRK troops within 50 miles of Seoul and the 38th parallel, military options would not work. Frankly, there is no really decent military alternative on this, so we don't have a real alternative for the moment. There is no easy solution to this problem. . . .

And for those who think it's OK for North Korea to have nukes...I think you need to seriously re-examine that. North Korea has already sponsored the Moro Islamic Liberation Front to over throw the Phillipine gov't. and sold ballistic missile technology to Iran and Syria to help prop up its missle program. . . .

The sad part is Kim Jong-Il is willing to starve and intimidate his people to keep himself in power. " ..... digitaldean


Yes. The answer doesn't lie in Military intervention, when the Worlds Nations and people are praying to their Higher Powers for World PEACE.

The scheduled PROGRAM of Sanctions against N.Korea, with the full and consistent support of N. Korea's allay China. Will ONLY (on a consistent basis), place the spotlight on N. Korea's Leader Kim Jong Il leadership, as the populace is stressed by a lack of food supplies, that predominately comes via China.

What is of primary concern in this stance, will be how pissed off Kim Jong Il may become, as his Country faces this food shortage?

In the face of that another question.

Will China weaken and withdraw it's present stance of supporting a UN policy of sanctions, including food supply to N.Korea?

Any option of discussion regarding disarmament of Nuclear Weapons World wide is strictly Utopian in concept thinking, therefore pointless rhetoric.

We will have to live with "a fact of life" of the Great Nations having Nuclear capability. This isn't the issue.

What is one of the issue's, is to continue to ensure that security in the area of N.Korea is maintained.

A further issue is a hard pitted response or N.Koea's demands. That before N.Korea even considers a return to the table to discuss the matter of the Worlds Powers, not wanting that nation to have Nuclear weapon capability; all sanctions against N.Korea must be dropped.

Sadly, North Korea's leaders have proven that Treaty's and their word isn't to be trusted. This further complicates the matter.

The correct option to bring N.Korea to it's knees in this issue, is a policy of stiff and prolonged sanctions against this rogue Nation. This will cause internal pressures on N. Korea's Leadership to first of all disarm and prove that it has disarmed and will then sign a TREATY to never move in this direction in the future.

The Worlds Nations under the direction of the UN Security Council must play hardball and starve N. Korea into submission. This is sad, as we are aware that this Nations people to a large extent, are already and have been suffering a selfish and dictorial leaders dark will.

[Deputy Nutz]

Does Canada get any Electorial Votes For the American President?

[woodbuck27]

Does Canada get any Electorial Votes For the American President?

No Deputy Nutz of course not.

Many Canadians (like myself) consider your President the most powerful man on the planet. We pay very strict attention to your due process Sir.

In school we likely learn about as much about your History as you did.

The US of A is OUR Neighbor, Our Friend and OUR closest allay and we share the same fight against terrorism and any real threats to world peace with your country.

[Tarlam!]

such a man as President (as you suggest could exist) would be impeached or otherwise forced from his office.

To even consider such a possibility of a man being the Head of State of the most important Nation in the World; and linking that to a suggestion of him being insane...is hardly realistic therefore moot.

You need to get a dose of reality old buddy. The President of the USA can nuke anybody he wants, anytime. He might be impeached, but only after the fact.

Have you already forgotten one US President pushed the button? Twice? Why on earth would you call him insane? He wasn't.

Many people claim the current President doesn't have all his marbles. I am definately not one of them, BTW.

The USA being the MVN of the World is your take. I'm not sure everybody, even in Canada, agrees with that sentiment.

You suffer from a similar mindset as most westerners. I am writing this mail from Shanghai. People around here plan in terms of multiple centuries. You, on the otherhand, do not. You think perhaps in generations at best.

[Scott Campbell]

Until the entire world is prepared to dismantle nuclear weapons, why, exactly, should countries forfeit their right to strive for military equaility?

Because if they don't, we may have to kill them in the interest of global stability.

The U.S. has tried the live and let live approach to world politics, and everybody knows how well that worked. You live in the country that gave birth to Hitler and the Third Reich. The country you live in erected factories for the explicit purpose of applying process improvement principals to their goal of exterminating an entire race of people. The country you live methodically set about blitzkrieging virtually defenseless countries to pursue their goal of global domination. So pardon me if I yawn at your moral outrage over our use of a new technology to end WWII.

As long as there are countries that allow crackpots and madmen to rise to power, there will be the need for a benevolent Superpower. It's a crappy job, because you'll never make all the people happy all of the time.

But the bottom line is this:

Were not all speaking German.

[Tarlam!]

So your argument is based on crimes comitted in Germany over 50 years ago, the USA needs nuclear weapons? Pardon me for yawning here. The country I live in doesn't resmble Nazi Germany. Even the language has gone through two reforms. You have more Nazis living in America than Germany has today.

BTW, I displayed no moral outrage, I merely pointed out some facts. In your attack on the country I live in, you have totally bypassed the discussion at hand, which is whether or not countries have a right to pursue nuclear weapons of their very own.

EDIT: Hitler was born in Austria....

[Scott Campbell]

which is whether or not countries have a right to pursue nuclear weapons of their very own.

EDIT: Hitler was born in Austria....

What right does Kim have to even lead his own country? What qulifications does he have other than being a member of the lucky sperm club?

[MJZiggy]

I tend to doubt that insane people should be allowed weapons of mass destruction, but that's just my base rule. Don't give weapons to crazy people. That govt. really needs to be overthrown from within...

[Scott Campbell]

So your argument is based on crimes comitted in Germany over 50 years ago, the USA needs nuclear weapons? Pardon me for yawning here.

You suffer from a similar mindset as most westerners. I am writing this mail from Shanghai. People around here plan in terms of multiple centuries. You, on the otherhand, do not. You think perhaps in generations at best.

Ok, make up your mind. You either want me thinking in terms of multiple centuries, or you don't.

[Tarlam!]

Ok, make up your mind. You either want me thinking in terms of multiple centuries, or you don't.

Just stick with the programme. We can debate the 3rd Reich, but I'm pretty sure we're on the same page.

We can discuss the US world policy, I am pretty sure, we are volumes apart.

My point on thinking in centuries is forward thinking. No doubt, you will now quote "remember history, or be damned to repeat it" yada.

Still, you're avoiding the "kern". Why should the USA have nukes, and N. Korea/Iran not?

[Scott Campbell]

Now, to Nukes. I forgot to mention China in my post above. Dear Kiwon, nothing you wrote, made my argument weaker. With respect, you posted an emotional claim based on not using the bomb since you did, so, you guys get to police the world. That's not enough for me, I'm afraid.

As long as your wonderful (I mean it) country is in a position to wipe other states off of maps, all countries have a right to strive to stop you.

A right to stop us???? I find it ironic that 2nd tier world powers lay claim to equal status during good times, but when all hell breaks loose these same slacker countries expect the mighty United States to step up as the leader of the free world and spend it's money, and shed it's blood to restore the order.

And then as soon as we've completed all the dirty work, these countries decide it's once again convenient to demand their equal status back.

It's certainly not true of all countries. But we get taken advantage of by the majority. In general, the world community leaches off their rich and gullible Uncle Sam.

[MJZiggy]

Still, you're avoiding the "kern". Why should the USA have nukes, and N. Korea/Iran not?

Because if they get them, the first thing they will do is use them?

[Scott Campbell]

Still, you're avoiding the "kern". Why should the USA have nukes, and N. Korea/Iran not?

I'm sure we could rattle off 15 or 20 reasons why, and the international community certainly seems to agree with us. But it all boils down to this:

1) The world is a safer place because the US has nukes.
2) The world is a less safe place because N. Korea has nukes. Same thing with Iran.

[rdanomly]

Now, to Nukes. I forgot to mention China in my post above. Dear Kiwon, nothing you wrote, made my argument weaker. With respect, you posted an emotional claim based on not using the bomb since you did, so, you guys get to police the world. That's not enough for me, I'm afraid.

As long as your wonderful (I mean it) country is in a position to wipe other states off of maps, all countries have a right to strive to stop you.

A right to stop us???? I find it ironic that 2nd tier world powers lay claim to equal status during good times, but when all hell breaks loose these same slacker countries expect the mighty United States to step up as the leader of the free world and spend it's money, and shed it's blood to restore the order.

And then as soon as we've completed all the dirty work, these countries decide it's once again convenient to demand their equal status back.

It's certainly not true of all countries. But we get taken advantage of by the majority. In general, the world community leaches off their rich and gullible Uncle Sam.

Check this book out some time:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...52287082&itm=1

The book isn't a report and it seems like there has been some fictionalization, but I definately would not describe Uncle Sam as gullible. Maybe more like convieniently looking the other way while other entities do what they do to get paid.

[woodbuck27]

such a man as President (as you suggest could exist) would be impeached or otherwise forced from his office.

To even consider such a possibility of a man being the Head of State of the most important Nation in the World; and linking that to a suggestion of him being insane...is hardly realistic therefore moot.

You need to get a dose of reality old buddy. The President of the USA can nuke anybody he wants, anytime. He might be impeached, but only after the fact.

Have you already forgotten one US President pushed the button? Twice? Why on earth would you call him insane? He wasn't.

Many people claim the current President doesn't have all his marbles. I am definately not one of them, BTW.

The USA being the MVN of the World is your take. I'm not sure everybody, even in Canada, agrees with that sentiment.

You suffer from a similar mindset as most westerners. I am writing this mail from Shanghai. People around here plan in terms of multiple centuries. You, on the otherhand, do not. You think perhaps in generations at best.

Your thoughts are interesting (as usual ) and I've recorded them Tarlam!.

I will come back to YOU " on your thoughts" as YOU certainly deserve to be rebuted.

The OLE Tarlam! Vs woodbuck27 debate lives on at PACKERRATS.

I TRUST that won't detract from the importance of the general debate afforded in this very excellent thread and topic of discussion.

Otherwise Tarlam!... I'm sure your alive and living well in Shanghai.

As an extention of that thought...

We are WORLD's apart in OUR views Maan.