Over/Under On The Thompson Bashers

[MJZiggy]

Ziggy at night:

"God bless mommy and daddy and Harvey and Patler......"

"and please bring me a superbowl win for Christmas...."

See now this last part I agree with. Harlan don't be all like that. You're unique as well.

[esoxx]

Too much hate in here.

[ZachMN]

o.k. I'm going to get ripped on this BUT

As good as 4-0 is, its not like there arent a bunch of teams who only have one loss. We are doing very well and have a kick ass coach and young, hungry players and a qb who , I have to admit, keeps pulling rabbits out of hats.

All that being said we are not over the hump but its nice to have these wins. We need to COUGH bear down and keep our noses to the grindstone. Its s long season and we are not out of the woods.

All the whille I will enjoy the ride that number 4 keeps taking me on.

Thanks, Brett, your the best

Zach MN

[retailguy]

o.k. I'm going to get ripped on this BUT

As good as 4-0 is, its not like there arent a bunch of teams who only have one loss. We are doing very well and have a kick ass coach and young, hungry players and a qb who , I have to admit, keeps pulling rabbits out of hats.

All that being said we are not over the hump but its nice to have these wins. We need to COUGH bear down and keep our noses to the grindstone. Its s long season and we are not out of the woods.

All the whille I will enjoy the ride that number 4 keeps taking me on.

Thanks, Brett, your the best

Zach MN

This post illustrates the issue PERFECTLY. Zach, I'm not ripping on you! Not one bit.

All - The VERY reason he has to start this post with the words "I'm going to get "ripped" on this, but" says it all!

You cannot state a negative OPINION or FACT in these rooms without getting bashed. The win streak has made this WORSE, not better. Until some in here acknowledge that they have no room to even LISTEN to another opinion, NOTHING will change.

Read his words. Then look in the mirror. (I've already done that, I'm not preaching.).....

[Zool]

I would think that the majority of the people in here read most of the posts and do not reply. Those people are, and have been, the cautiously optimistic people.

[retailguy]

I would think that the majority of the people in here read most of the posts and do not reply. Those people are, and have been, the cautiously optimistic people.

I completely agree, and since Zach has 72 posts (to date), that probably indicates he is one of the "cautiously optimistic".

But he's also read enough to know that if he actually "posts" anything remotely negative (instead of just thinking it), he needs to put on his flak jacket, and acknowledge that he'll be bashed for his opinion, and to me THAT is the clear message.

That was my point. Sorry if that was not clear.

[MJZiggy]

You don't think someone who wants to post something positive goes through the same thing? If you post something at either polar end (and I'm not saying Zach did) it's the exact same thing. But the funny thing you might wanna notice is that NO ONE has put forth any kind of argument about what he said because it's not unreasonable. I, for one, quite agree with it.

[Partial]

I would think that the majority of the people in here read most of the posts and do not reply. Those people are, and have been, the cautiously optimistic people.

I completely agree, and since Zach has 72 posts (to date), that probably indicates he is one of the "cautiously optimistic".

But he's also read enough to know that if he actually "posts" anything remotely negative (instead of just thinking it), he needs to put on his flak jacket, and acknowledge that he'll be bashed for his opinion, and to me THAT is the clear message.

That was my point. Sorry if that was not clear.

Not true. I think Darren Colledge sucks and I am not at all worried about catching flack for it because I am convinced he is awful. It doesn't take away from the success of the team or mean that the team sucks, though. The team can still be great and have a terrible player on it. Not every team has a pro-bowler at every position. Hell, the Pats and Cowboys even have some BAD players starting for them.

The thing that ticks people off is when there is mention of the team being bad when they're 4-0. Clearly, they're looking good and are on the upswing. There will always be things they can improve on. That's why the so far invincible Patriots still practice during the week.

[Zool]

I would think that the majority of the people in here read most of the posts and do not reply. Those people are, and have been, the cautiously optimistic people.

I completely agree, and since Zach has 72 posts (to date), that probably indicates he is one of the "cautiously optimistic".

But he's also read enough to know that if he actually "posts" anything remotely negative (instead of just thinking it), he needs to put on his flak jacket, and acknowledge that he'll be bashed for his opinion, and to me THAT is the clear message.

That was my point. Sorry if that was not clear.

I agreed with you, just adding on i spose. I wouldnt agree with the "remotely negative" part tho. I'm probably seen as one of the optimists, but Ive posted plenty of negatives without getting bashed too hard. Just cant keep beating the dead horse without someone lashing out.

[Carolina_Packer]

Ok, we are 4-0; no team in the entire NFL has a better record after 1/4 of the regular season.
One of the chronic TT bashers seems to have softened in the face of the significant improvement in the team, but at least 2 others have adamantly, petulantly dug in their heels and refused to face the painfully obvious.
One gets the feeling that they are now down in the bunker, just waiting for a Packer loss to jump back in to once again spew more blasts of their ridiculous vitriol. Their claims : "Thompson is trying to wreck the Packers" (to lose his own job?), "Thompson hates Favre so much he is wrecking the Packers" (to lose his own job?) "Thompson is trying to wreck the entire universe" have been a source of amusement to many of us for a long time, and, in all fairness, might wind up being actually missed for their comedic value if & when the misguided return to reality.
Now then : just how many wins will it take for them to extend even the tiniest bit of credit to Ted Thompson for the job he's done?
5?
6?
8?
12?
16-0??????????

Now YOU.

Seems to me that your resembling the Village Idiot that shits on the parade.

WTF.

Pot calling kettle.

BTW, 4-0 without your boy Moss. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

First of all we are people of various backgrounds that love the Packers.

We should not be taking any different views to the extreme of judging or pidgeon holeing. WE are just all Packer fans and Rastak.

Just for you to ponder.

Maybe you could examine this silly feud a tad closer before you jump on either band wagon cpk1994.

Just maybe. It is best to remain a neutral and not pick sides or gang on. It will all come out in the wash despite some ruffled feathers at hthe present time.

I will to go out on the edge and imform all on this board, that the people like myself who are afflicted with the accusations of being the hateful are actually quite the opposite.

We want a win - win for all Packer fans.

We (the so called and labeled TT haters. . .Haha) are the fact based, truthfully accountable objective posters that only want the Packers to move towords winning and real growth.

For our Packer team GM Ted Thompson to do something more not less.

I see it in terms of the big picture and major goal of winning as Brett Favre does. The duty of the Packer GM is to do all he can to ensure a status of consistency in winning as well as maintain financial restraint for our teams future.

Not all one way or the other.

The chief reason that some here have stood against Ted Thompson is that we feel he should take advantage of the fact we still have Brett Favre. Have encouraged more talent (experience) in our offence and specifically at the position of obvious concern, Runningback.

I would be the last person to rub it in a mans face. I will not argue.

I felt our running game would be weaker and that is the way it appears to be. Ted Thompson went with the status quo after encouraging Ahman Green to change loyalities. I felt that he ran too high of a risk to make that assessment.

We have the worst running game in the NFL. Why is that now. . .

Some of us could see that from a long way off but Ted Thompson did not or is it something else in Ted Thompson . . .

That is the root of the debate.

Mr. Nail please meet Mr. Head...Wham!

I think TT got caught off-guard with this one. He must have thought we were good enough, otherwise, we'd have different personnel now. I know people talk about last off-season, and getting a running back, etc., but really that was painting ourselves into a corner. We either choose one of the available running backs and Harvey has argued well that there weren't a lot of great options. TT obviously saw it the same way. So, what could have been done to prevent this? Draft more high-caliber running back talent, instead of always going with the undrafted free agents or little-tested talent. We could have drafted someone back in 2005 or 2006 and had them in our system ready to assume the reigns if/when we decided to let Ahman walk. Take away all the talent acquired this year (Jackson, Wynn and Grant...sounds like a firm) and you have P.J. Pope, Arliss Beach and Vernand Morency. There are no guarantees, but isn't the idea of the draft to stock up before the need arrives (ala Justin Harrell)? So far, we have only drafted RB's in the 2007 draft, after we knew Ahman was leaving. Seems too reactive.

Here are two players we could have drafted in recent drafts. In 2005, Terence Murphy was an unfortunate accident for sure, however a few picks after him, SF took Frank Gore...ouch for that miss. In 2006, in the 4th round, we took Cory "Shoot 'Em Up!" Rodgers who busted. A few picks after, the Jets picked Leon Washington. Gore is a stud, and Washington isn't great, but he flashes. All I'm saying is, we could have invested a little more from TT's first draft on to enures the future of the running game instead of getting caught off-guard by the departure of Ahman Green. That is not to slam Vernand Morency or any of the backs we have. It's more about succession and preparedness. We have prepared for Brett's departure for the last few years with A-Rod. We knew when Ahman's contract was up, so why didn't we sign a serious replacement back in 2005 or 2006? I think the cupboard was a little bare, and it left us in a position to have to rely on too much inexperience.

Sure, that's picking nits at 4-0, but it's a big nit! He should have taken even greater care to ensure the stability of the RB position, instead of rolling the dice with inexperienced guys who may not have been ready to help us. If not through free agency, which I fully understand, if there's nobody there you like, so be it. However, if draft and develop is your M.O., then give the running game it's due for draft picks in advance of your stud running back leaving town. I think he just got caught flat-footed and should see things like this 2-3 years out. Maybe it's just me.

I love this team, and I want to see it thrive, not sputter as a result of not being able to run the ball. If they can go the entire season and not have a running game and win a lot of games and go deep in the playoffs, it will be an amazing accomplishment. But to me, this is a problem that could have been solved before it ever happenend, and given what he saw happen to the RB position in 2005, I'm surprised he didn't draft an RB in 2006.

[Bretsky]

Too much hate in here.

Best to just eat the popcorn and hope the thread fizzles.

It didn't take a rocket scientist to know this thread would lead to plenty of quarrels from the second you saw the title.

[retailguy]

I agreed with you, just adding on i spose. I wouldnt agree with the "remotely negative" part tho. I'm probably seen as one of the optimists, but Ive posted plenty of negatives without getting bashed too hard. Just cant keep beating the dead horse without someone lashing out.

Actually, I used remotely negative purposely and here's why:

You have two examples from above that state they didn't have a problem with what Zach said (Ziggy & Partial). If they had an issue they'd have weighed in. Then someone else would have had an issue to what they said and chimed in too. Then it gets repeated adinfinitum...

If you have an opinion, not shared by the majority of posters/readers/responders, you'll hear about it many, many, many times. The more negative/gloomy/or repeated, the more the responses. After the multiple responses, and some banter from the original poster about why they believed they were correct, or why they thought what they did, then one of the responders will "brand" you with the negative label, and on and on and on it goes. From that point on, EVERYTHING that person said is viewed through those glasses. Hence, the "majority" keeps the "minority" in line with it's viewpoint, and teaches them not to speak freely, or worse educates them that if they do speak, there is a cost to be paid in the form of ridicule (which was the purpose of Shadow's topic to begin with). It also seems to be teaching others (less frequent posters) to "judge" what they can say, and what they cannot say.

Somewhat the nature of forums perhaps, but also, there is a piece where "likeminded" folks like to hear that they, and their opinion, are in fact correct. No one likes to be wrong, but sometimes when you talk about your opinions, you are in fact wrong, that's why they call it an opinion... lol

Don't believe me? Revert to the original post, and Shadow's basic point - I WAS CORRECT and the rest of you fools just didn't believe me. IT IS WEEK FOUR, for heavens sake. Lots can still happen, however, but Shadow decided that TODAY, all of those "negativists" need to own up to the "facts" right now, no more waiting because it's clear. We don't need to watch the team play the other 12 games, because today at 4-0 his "opinion" is forever validated, even if the team goes off the ski slope and ends the year at 4-12, I guess...

But lets not lose sight of the original point, a poster with 72 posts and some significant time here as a member "felt" he was going to get bashed for saying something most of us think is reasonable. How many others KEEP SILENT because of the same perspective? This is my concern. I had a permanent flak jacket installed six months ago, and I'll always be covered in teflon the way it looks, and that's fine, you can't keep me from telling you over and over and over what I think. Sadly, you won't lose me, I'll still be here. But, how many have posted, been bashed/branded/ridiculed/contridicted never to return because it is just not worth it?

I just want to hear what more people like Zach think, and less about what people like Shadow and JH think. It looks like Zach's discussion is missing and not likely to return any time soon.

[woodbuck27]

We (the so called and labeled TT haters. . .Haha) are the fact based, truthfully accountable objective posters that only want the Packers to move towords winning and real growth.

These kind of statements remind me of when I bought my second car when I was about 19. I remember dealing with the used car salesman "Honest Bill Kowalski". He kept telling me how he would never steer me wrong.

I am no car salesman Scott. Simply a concerned Packer fan that can see clearly that we need more fr. our GM for a secured future.

GO PACK GO !

[PackerBlues]

Well golly......wish I would have gotten to this post sooner.


I do not think anyone should be taking an "I told you so" point of view on anyone else right now. People who were upset with Thompson had reasons to be.


You can start with the running game. I was one of the people bitching about Thompson not improving the running game. Certain people said screw it, because they had faith that Thompson knew what he was doing, and the running game would be ok. Those same people are now upset, that the Packers do not have the running game they thought we would have. In my opinion, we were all right, and wrong at the same time. I think Thompson was ok with the running game being half-ass, because he was planning on having Favre carry the load with a pass-heavy Offense. I think it's working great, and I could care less about the run game now.


Another thing some people were pissed at Thompson about, was Randy Moss. While some of us wanted Moss for his big play potential, his veteran skills, and depth, others said they did not want him because he was washed up, to costly, and a locker room nightmare. Looks like us "Thompson Bashers" were right to want Moss. Thing is, we really do not seem to need him. So again, everyone was right and wrong at the same time, in one way or another.


I think that a lot of us are awful damned happy with what this team has accomplished so far. I do not think anyone would have thought that our Packers would be 4-0 right now, without a run game, and using a Pass-Heavy Offense. Not one singe one of the "Thompson Supporters" ever suggested that what we have now is what they expected all along. I think if anyone would have suggested that Thompson was building the Offense the way he was........to build what we have now, they would have been laughed out of the forums. I am so freaking pleasantly surprised with our Offense, that I am shocked that it is all because of a guy that I spent the entire pre-season bashing. If this is what Thompson had planned all along, putting so much trust in Favre, ..............wow, I am impressed, and I do have new found respect for Thompson. (I still want Moss!!! )

[the_idle_threat]

I think Shadow and JH can be excessively combative at times, but all in all I enjoy reading what they think.

Some of the folks on the other side of the debate can be very in-your-face at times also, including those who Shadow was calling out here. That being said, they add to the diversity of opinion in this forum, and they give as good as they get, so I don't see a problem.

I'm not too worried about those who are (supposedly) too meek to post because they're over-sensitive regarding criticism. If they can't take the heat, they'll stay out of the kitchen. If we baby-proof this place, it will get pretty boring pretty fast.

[the_idle_threat]

Well golly......wish I would have gotten to this post sooner.


I do not think anyone should be taking an "I told you so" point of view on anyone else right now. People who were upset with Thompson had reasons to be.


You can start with the running game. I was one of the people bitching about Thompson not improving the running game. Certain people said screw it, because they had faith that Thompson knew what he was doing, and the running game would be ok. Those same people are now upset, that the Packers do not have the running game they thought we would have. In my opinion, we were all right, and wrong at the same time. I think Thompson was ok with the running game being half-ass, because he was planning on having Favre carry the load with a pass-heavy Offense. I think it's working great, and I could care less about the run game now.


Another thing some people were pissed at Thompson about, was Randy Moss. While some of us wanted Moss for his big play potential, his veteran skills, and depth, others said they did not want him because he was washed up, to costly, and a locker room nightmare. Looks like us "Thompson Bashers" were right to want Moss. Thing is, we really do not seem to need him. So again, everyone was right and wrong at the same time, in one way or another.


I think that a lot of us are awful damned happy with what this team has accomplished so far. I do not think anyone would have thought that our Packers would be 4-0 right now, without a run game, and using a Pass-Heavy Offense. Not one singe one of the "Thompson Supporters" ever suggested that what we have now is what they expected all along. I think if anyone would have suggested that Thompson was building the Offense the way he was........to build what we have now, they would have been laughed out of the forums. I am so freaking pleasantly surprised with our Offense, that I am shocked that it is all because of a guy that I spent the entire pre-season bashing. If this is what Thompson had planned all along, putting so much trust in Favre, ..............wow, I am impressed, and I do have new found respect for Thompson. (I still want Moss!!! )

PB=The voice of reason? :P

[Partial]

You have two examples from above that state they didn't have a problem with what Zach said (Ziggy & Partial). If they had an issue they'd have weighed in. Then someone else would have had an issue to what they said and chimed in too. Then it gets repeated adinfinitum...

If you have an opinion, not shared by the majority of posters/readers/responders, you'll hear about it many, many, many times. The more negative/gloomy/or repeated, the more the responses.

Bitching and moaning gets very, very old after awhile. You have taken the same sarcastic approach that rubs people the wrong way all off-season and now into the season. Everyone makes their own persona here. Whether you're a negativist or a kool-aid drinking SOG(son of a gun) like Nick Collins, you'll hear about it either way.

People get consistently torn down when they keep bitching about the same damn thing and not saying anything constructive at all. Your sarcastic fashion certainly affects posters opinions and it puts that negative spotlight on yourself.

Essentially, you are what you make yourself out to be. You're looked at as a TT hater because thats how your posts come across. Whether thats your intention or not, perception is everything. It's not like you made one snide comment once. You did multiple times a day, day in and day out without acknowledging the good that goes with the bad.

Just to play devil's advocate, by saying it is jumping to conclusions that we're a good team after 4 weeks, it should also be considered jumping to conclusions that letting green walk, the concerns about our running game, etc are all a bit premature this season. After all, we've only played 4 games. Guys that would rather watch football and break it down than bitch about it like myself and I suspect Harv have reason to believe based on what we've seen that we may end up being a pretty solid running team when all is said and done.

[retailguy]

I think Shadow and JH can be excessively combative at times, but all in all I enjoy reading what they think.

Some of the folks on the other side of the debate can be very in-your-face at times also, including those who Shadow was calling out here. That being said, they add to the diversity of opinion in this forum, and they give as good as they get, so I don't see a problem.

I'm not too worried about those who are (supposedly) too meek to post because they're over-sensitive regarding criticism. If they can't take the heat, they'll stay out of the kitchen. If we baby-proof this place, it will get pretty boring pretty fast.

I'm not talking about "baby proofing" one bit, but I think you know that. There is a point of being civil and courteous that has disappeared, or is rapidly disapearing. I don't think most of us would refer to "civility" as baby proofing.

I've done the best I know how to leave the "drama" out of my posts above. I do not know if I've succeeded as I have some strong views on the topic.

Here is a real example. JH has told me multiple times that my "sarcasm" ticks him off. I guess he can't help himself when my take on something "reeks" of sarcasm. I'm not changing, it's how I view the situation, and he's not changing, for probably the same reasons, but somewhere we've lost respect for each other. I have ZERO respect left for him or his opinions. I try hard to ignore what he says, UNLESS, he comes after me or my point of view. Then I respond. I'm sure it is the same for others.

But, if you've read what Packer Blues has to say above, then you know that we can be right, and wrong. I've taken more heat for my perspective on Ahman Green than any other member of this forum. I was bitching about it on March 3rd and haven't really changed my opinion since that day.

I was right, and I was wrong. I was convinced we would not be able to run the ball, and to week 4 I've been correct. I was equally convinced that we'd be affected by not being able to run the ball. To week 4, I've been wrong about that and 4-0 indicates that. But, we've got 12 games yet to play and BOTH of those perspectives might yet change. Talk to Shadow, or JH, though, and I'm a damn negative fool who couldn't see, much less hit, the broad side of the barn. Talk to me, and I'll tell you that they don't understand that you can't win sustained over a longer period WITHOUT running. Who is right? We'll see, won't we?

[arcilite]

I would think that the majority of the people in here read most of the posts and do not reply. Those people are, and have been, the cautiously optimistic people.

That is me.... even though I have loved TT from day one.

[The Shadow]

[quote="retailguy"]

Hence, the "majority" keeps the "minority" in line with it's viewpoint, and teaches them not to speak freely, or worse educates them that if they do speak, there is a cost to be paid in 1. the form of ridicule (which was the purpose of Shadow's topic to begin with). It also seems to be teaching others (less frequent posters) to "judge" what they can say, and what they cannot say.


Don't believe me? Revert to the original post, and Shadow's basic point - 2. I WAS CORRECT and the rest of you fools just didn't believe me. IT IS WEEK FOUR, for heavens sake. Lots can still happen, however, but Shadow decided that TODAY, all of those "negativists" need to own up to the "facts" right now, no more waiting because it's clear. We don't need to watch the team play the other 12 games, because today at 4-0 his "opinion" is forever validated, even if the team goes off the ski slope and ends the year at 4-12, I guess...

1. Nope. Not ridiculing anyone. Just countering the months of TT-bashing on every single move the guy makes - while never giving him an iota of credit for the team's development.
Someone even actually claimed in an earlier post that it was Brett Favre ALONE who was solely responsible for the team's success.
I am simply pointing out that many of us reserve the right to disagree with the single-minded Thompson haters who can't stand to see his plan for the team successfully folding.
Of COURSE it's early - but does not 4-0 seem infinitely better than 0-4?

2. Nonsense. I am not alone. Many, many of us have refused to kowtow to the blind, vitriolic TT hate when our eyes and ears could plainly see the team was improving. It is only right and fair that the bleating of the chronic negatives is allowed to be countered by a reminder of the facts.