Off-season 2023 Banjo

[MadScientist]

hahahahahaha If he ever read the shit in here, that chip would come back in a hurry.

A generally good post, runpMc - at least in comparison to most of the hater crap from some in here.

I guess it doesn't occur to any of those dumbasses that a large part of the reason for Rodgers' worse stats was a better run game? or lower quality and/or less experienced receivers? I bet some of ya'all haters were the same shitheads who used to whine that Rodgers was a "stat whore" when he was consistently throwing for 300 yards a game and 40+ TDs a season.

Rodgers' stats were down because he wasn't good this season. His rating was the worst of his career, and his QBR was an anemic 39.4. Having a good running game should have helped those numbers. The lack of sustained drives and poor red-zone performance doomed this season and Rodgers was a big part of those failings. Can he bounce back? Maybe. He's had seasons bad enough for me to start the "Is Arron Rodgers good anymore" thread, and bounced back to playing great.

Why Rodgers will rebound:
1) Injuries - The broken thumb was causing him problems for a large part of the season. Not just in bad passes, but in lack of practice time.
2) Receivers - Doubs and Watson are clearly talented and another year should get them on the same page with Rodgers and just better prepared to play a full NFL season
3) OLine - Jenkins will be healthy and in his more natural position. Bach might finally be healthy for the start of the season, and Tom will have a year under his belt.

Why Rodgers won't rebound:
1) Age - Rodgers turns 40 this year. Age is not going to help his mobility or ability to heal.
2) No chip on his shoulder - His contract makes Love no threat to him, and he plays better when he has something to prove.
3) Cold - Even if the Packers are better next year, Rodgers has looked bad in the cold for several years.

Best guess - He'll rebound enough to be good, but not great. They'll make the playoffs and be bounced in the first round.

[Deputy Nutz]

I just saw a tweet that said the Packers could trade Rodgers this off-season and take a 40 million dollar hit, or they can keep him on the roster and take a 65 million hit in 2024. I think if you wait till 2024 to move on from Rodgers you are going to lose Love. Maybe you can trade Love and start over on the QB of the future.

[RashanGary]

I just saw a tweet that said the Packers could trade Rodgers this off-season and take a 40 million dollar hit, or they can keep him on the roster and take a 65 million hit in 2024. I think if you wait till 2024 to move on from Rodgers you are going to lose Love. Maybe you can trade Love and start over on the QB of the future.

This year is a really good time for a trade. It gets stickier every year of the contract. But I don’t think they like Love. The Rodgers contract shows they don’t have much confidence in the young guy.

[Joemailman]

They clearly didn't feel Love was ready last March or they wouldn't have given Rodgers the contract they did. The question is whether that's changed with Love's improved play this past year. If so, it's hard to see them wanting to trade Love after developing him for 3 years. The problem is Rodgers doesn't really want to be traded. He wants to finish his career with Green Bay. The Packers may either have to play Rodgers or convince him to retire.

[Fritz]

Woody Johnson, the Jets owner reportedly willing to pay for a veteran QB. https://twitter.com/i/status/1613617243396444160

I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin'.

Woody gave me a woody.

A first rounder for Rodgers.

But would he?

And Rodgers - playing in New York following the same sorry career path of his predecessor?

Would he?

[call_me_ishmael]

The question ultimately boils down to this I guess:

Do you think Love is good enough over the next 5 years to risk burning a bridge and moving on from Rodgers?

If he's going to be middle of the road, it honestly probably isn't worth it.
If he's going to be top 5-10, then yeah it probably is.

I believe the Packers think they know the answer to this.

[Joemailman]

The question ultimately boils down to this I guess:

Do you think Love is good enough over the next 5 years to risk burning a bridge and moving on from Rodgers?

If he's going to be middle of the road, it honestly probably isn't worth it.
If he's going to be top 5-10, then yeah it probably is.

I believe the Packers think they know the answer to this.

Gute said as much last month when asked if they need to see Jordan Love in the late season games.

“No,” general manager Brian Gutekunst said on Monday. “We’re really pleased with his progression and what he’s been able to do. I think that it would be really good for him, the growth that you need to go through, seeing things for the first time, making those mistakes that you need to make. But I think from our end of it, we’ve seen what we need to see.”

[Teamcheez1]

So we have a middle of the road old QB and a middle of the road young QB.

[Joemailman]

Gute just said in his PC he can envision both Love and Rodgers on the Packers in 2023. Acknowledged that Love is ready to play and chomping at the bit (his words). Also said he'd like to see all players here in the offseason while acknowledging much of it is voluntary. Acknowledged that older players need workouts less, but said it's good for younger players for everyone to be here.

[texaspackerbacker]

I guess it doesn't occur to you that Rodgers is clearly showing signs of decline. It happens to everyone: Manning, Brady, Favre, Marino, and yes even Aaron Rodgers.
You can point to receivers, line, etc., but he's transcended that in the past; why can't he now?

****
3rd and goal at the 3.5 yard line against the Lions. Rodgers runs out of the pocket to his right and towards the line of scrimmage. In past years he'd have run for it or given a pump fake and tried to run it in. If he'd done that he'd have gotten it close the goal line and made it an easier 4th and goal. Instead he throws an off target pass in Dillon's direction.

There are tons of examples like this. His skills have diminished.

Lower quality receivers? You called Watson & Doubs a and

OL was a little shaky, but his pressured rate was actually lower this year than last by quite a bit (and below league average).
Having Bahk & Jenkins hit their groove in the second half of the season helped that.

I would love to see Rodgers throw 24-28 times a game for 280-320 yards and 2-3TDs. I just don't know that he can anymore. Blaming the stats on the run game is a little questionable; there were games where MLF seemed to ignore Aaron Jones and give him 8 carries. Rodgers had 542 attempts this year, or ~31.9 per game compared to 33.2 and 32.9 in 2022 and 2021 respectively, so he's not throwing much less on average. And yet his yards/game is way down. So you have a QB who is throwing for less yardage on almost the same # of attempts despite getting less pressure.

There of course were signs of decline last year. What did you see, though, that wasn't directly attributable to the thumb injury? Did his mobility decline? No, not much. His stats declined, as I said, and as would be expected with the team running more. Comparison to others? Manning played until 40. He had a clearly debilitating injury - which Rodgers does not. Favre played well into his 40s with some decline toward the end - all I can say there is he may not have taken as good care of his body as Rodgers. Marino I don't really remember, but I think there was some kind of injury factor there too. Brees, who you didn't mention, declined some, but he was at least serviceable until 42 or so. Brady may have declined some this season, but he's 45 or so, and prior to this year, he was damn near as good as ever.

Regarding receivers, I did say "lower quality and/or less experienced" - you know I have as high an opinion of Watson and Doubs as anybody, but they did lack experience, not to mention each missing major chunks of the season with injury.

Screwed up plays: there have always been those, and it's hard to tell whose fault they are - Rodgers, LaFleur, other players not executing, etc. In an overall bad season, those things stand out more long term, but they're hardly a sign of decline.

I've said, the O Line actually seemed better this year (better without the sacred cow than with him hahahaha). Part of the reason for less pressures, total numbers as well as the rate, was more use of the running game.

"I would love to see Rodgers throw 24-28 times a game for 280-320 yards and 2-3TDs" - what you'd love to see: That IMO is extremely doable going forward with a healthy Rodgers, even with the team relying as umch on the running game. I also thoroughly expect his interception rate - which rose all the way to almost as bad as most QBs - to drop back down to Rodgers-normal, which means practically zero.

CMI brought up QBs playing into their 40s, other than Brady: Obviously Favre and Brees just in recent years, and you could go back to Blanda, admittedly a bad example because he was primarily a kicker. It's a different NFL now with rule changes, better conditioning, etc. Most of the QBs who quit younger in recent times were never close to Rodgers or Brady level to begin with - literally nobody has been other than P. Manning.

[call_me_ishmael]

So we have a middle of the road old QB and a middle of the road young QB.

If there is no clear advantage to rolling with Love, I don't think you make the change. It's not worth it.

[call_me_ishmael]

CMI brought up QBs playing into their 40s, other than Brady: Obviously Favre and Brees just in recent years, and you could go back to Blanda, admittedly a bad example because he was primarily a kicker. It's a different NFL now with rule changes, better conditioning, etc. Most of the QBs who quit younger in recent times were never close to Rodgers or Brady level to begin with - literally nobody has been other than P. Manning.

Neither Brees or Favre were any good in their 40s though.

[ThunderDan]

If there is no clear advantage to rolling with Love, I don't think you make the change. It's not worth it.

Why not? ARod's contract is a huge drag on the franchise. If the play level is going to be the same, why not rip the bandaid off this year and get it over with?

[ThunderDan]

Hard to believe that some here can't see a difference in 2022 and 2021 ARod play.

2022 Green Bay Packers 17 542 350 64.6 3695 6.8 58 26 12 177 32.7 53 32 258 91.1
2021 Green Bay Packers 16 531 366 68.9 4115 7.8 75 37 4 213 40.1 55 30 188 111.9

ARod attempted more passes in 2022 than 2021. His total yardage on more pass attempts went down 420 yards or 10.2%.
His yardage per attempt went from 7.8 yards to 6.8 yards or 12.8%. That stat has nothing to do with the number of runs called.
TDs down 11 or 30%. Ints up 8 or 300%.
QB Rating went from 111.9 to 91.1. Down 20.8 points or 18.6%.

[call_me_ishmael]

Why not? ARod's contract is a huge drag on the franchise. If the play level is going to be the same, why not rip the bandaid off this year and get it over with?

I can see that logic to but what is the upside if they're not winning games either way. I guess I lean towards letting the legend finish his career the way he wants on his terms and getting a very friendly post-career appearances agreement, etc.

[sharpe1027]

hahahahahaha If he ever read the shit in here, that chip would come back in a hurry.

A generally good post, runpMc - at least in comparison to most of the hater crap from some in here.

I guess it doesn't occur to any of those dumbasses that a large part of the reason for Rodgers' worse stats was a better run game? or lower quality and/or less experienced receivers? I bet some of ya'all haters were the same shitheads who used to whine that Rodgers was a "stat whore" when he was consistently throwing for 300 yards a game and 40+ TDs a season.

You keep lumping everyone that disagrees with you together using labels like shit head and dumbasses. It just weakens your credibility.

I never called Rodgers a stat whore. I have only ever wanted him to be successful. I have no agenda or desire to be proven right. I'm just sharing what I see and believe. Is it inconceivable to you that people raise questions about Rodgers because they are just reasonably concerned for the Packers?

[run pMc]

You keep lumping everyone that disagrees with you together using labels like shit head and dumbasses. It just weakens your credibility.

I never called Rodgers a stat whore. I have only ever wanted him to be successful. I have no agenda or desire to be proven right. I'm just sharing what I see and believe. Is it inconceivable to you that people raise questions about Rodgers because they are just reasonably concerned for the Packers?

This, and ThunderDans' post as well.
Rodgers is on the decline.

The Packers ran the ball 10 times more this year than last year, and that's over 17 games not 16, so you could argue they ran less. His mobility did decline: Rodgers scrambles/runs per game were at a career low, and when he did it was obvious he can't run like he did 5 years ago. All in all, I don't see how you could not see his efficiency and production declined. I also don't know why anyone would think a declining player would suddenly be rejuvenated and play like an MVP in their age 40 season. He declined across the board, not just in one area, which would be more indicative of an external circumstance.

If you can back up your position with stats I might agree with you.

[Fritz]

Why not? ARod's contract is a huge drag on the franchise. If the play level is going to be the same, why not rip the bandaid off this year and get it over with?

I agree. Why not get this over with instead of dragging it out?

And time heals all wounds. Brent came back to standing O's after all of his transgressions - the horrible retirement/unretirement, the dic pics, the stories, his sorry play in the playoffs against the Gints.

Rodgers has "only" been a whiny prick in comparison.

[Teamcheez1]

If I’m Jordan Love, I tell the Packers to pick up my 5th year option or trade me before the draft.

[Joemailman]

Jordan Love excited about finally becoming Packers starting QB.