Reflections on Gooter

[call_me_ishmael]

Roster kinda seems like ass. I have always had a hard time figuring out if he was a good GM or not. I think the draft data and lack of depth points towards not very good, but it might be cemented now that Love doesn't look like a dude. I do think he does a lot of good stuff *during the deason* but his off-season and college scouting outside of first round could be better for sure.

Gooter bet literally everything on JLove. He pissed off and tarnished the relationship with an all-timer because he believed in a thing called Love. I kinda wonder if his seat is getting quite warm*

*We all know its not because its the Packers and Muphy is gonna retire shortly anyway. The next guy will likely fire Gooter though.

[MadScientist]

They can all go. Murphy, Gute, MLF, all the other coaches. They can go this week, given how bad the Packers are playing right now.

[Upnorth]

I'm good with gute.

I think it's Lafleur over complicating line blocking on o.
And Barry exists. He has okay schemes, but it seems like players aren't making good choices in the scheme, so he isn't teaching recognition. Barry needs an interpreter or needs ro go.

[run pMc]

Gute's done ok. A few of his drafts look bad, but the last two have been pretty good overall. I'd give him like a B- overall.

MLF is going to be on the hot seat next year. I'm assuming they don't go into a full-on death spiral and lose the rest of their games, in which case I'd consider a coaching change. This team has talent, they need to put it together. In theory they should get better by end of year.
Barry's contract is up at end of season and won't be invited back if there is any wisdom in the building.
The ILB and OLB coaches are ok I guess. The new secondary guy seems decent.

Stenovich is OC in name only and should probably help more with OL coaching.
Tom Clements is on a milk carton, I think he's done after this year unless they can entice him back with a shiny new QB draft pick to mold.
Ben Sirmins is a decent RB coach
No idea on the WR coach, but he's got work to do to get those guys to improve. They might need better there.
The TE coach is a glorified coffee getter. They probably need more there.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I'm good with gute.

You’re good with the GM who took Savage and a fucking center over DK Metcalf and AJ Brown? Guess you must’ve been good with MVS, Lazard and St. Brown catching rocks. And you’re good with the GM who took Love over Jonathan Taylor?

[Joemailman]

They can all go. Murphy, Gute, MLF, all the other coaches. They can go this week, given how bad the Packers are playing right now.

That's certainly an overreaction, if an understandable one. This is the youngest team in the NFL that has played 4 games that were decided by a total of 8 points. They've lost 3 of them. That's disappointing, but not a reason to blow everything up.

[run pMc]

You’re good with the GM who took Savage and a fucking center over DK Metcalf and AJ Brown? Guess you must’ve been good with MVS, Lazard and St. Brown catching rocks. And you’re good with the GM who took Love over Jonathan Taylor?

Elgton Jenkins is a two time Pro Bowler, he was a good pick. The GMs who took Metcalf and Brown in R2 also took LJ Collier and Andre Dillard in R1. EVERY GM passed on Deebo in R1.

As for Love, I preferred Jalen Hurts (more accurate in college, higher level of competition) to Jordan Love, but many scouts liked Love's arm and ability to play off-schedule. He was a Top 40 pick at a minimum. Picking a RB high is dicey at best; you don't do it unless you have a game-changer. That was the mistake with Dillon in R2. You can find dynamic or even serviceable RBs in Day 3, as has been proven by GB with Jamaal/AJones.

EVERY GM has swings and misses, just because you liked a player better that GB didn't take doesn't make the GM bad. Most people were WTF with Rodgers and Nick Collins

[Upnorth]

You’re good with the GM who took Savage and a fucking center over DK Metcalf and AJ Brown? Guess you must’ve been good with MVS, Lazard and St. Brown catching rocks. And you’re good with the GM who took Love over Jonathan Taylor?

Dude,

I'm very happy youadd the right call there. 0 gms saw 1st round talent in Metcalf. So if that's the hill yoj want to die on then every gm should be fired.

If you step back at his whole body of work then gute is very much above average at the least.
And I still think going for a qb in 2020 with high upside was smart.

[MadScientist]

That's certainly an overreaction, if an understandable one. This is the youngest team in the NFL that has played 4 games that were decided by a total of 8 points. They've lost 3 of them. That's disappointing, but not a reason to blow everything up.

The only overreaction is suggesting that they all be fired this week, since it takes time to replace people and there are likely no viable replacements at this time of year. But not one of them has earned another season. They've been playing for 7 weeks and there is no improvement seen, in any group. Gute drafted like shit in 2020 and 2021. The 22 and 23 drafts looked better initially, but who is actually improving? They are not taking a step up, and most look like they are regressing. The supposed OL and DL strengths coming into the season were just a mirage. OL is complete shit, DL isn't getting pressure (0 sacks on Russel!!??). Barry's defense looks barely adequate against shitty teams, and the offense has been worse than shitty in the first half of every single game. Really they only played 2 decent halves of football this whole year.

So who among the coaches and front office has laid claim to deserving another season? I'm seeing nobody.

[Fritz]

His inability to build from the insides out - from the trenches out - has to be a disappointment. Wyatt's lack of development this year is disappointing as all get out. Then you have a bunch of fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-rounders plus Kenny Clark.

He drafted Jenkins, which is good, but Myers is barely a JAG, and his other later-round guys have not been Wolf or Ted-quality guys. Even Tom, who seemed so promising, seems to be a bit lost out there. But I suppose he could still turn out.

Guter's had some good picks, but the game is still won and lost in the trenches, and Guter gets a D or D+ there.

[bobblehead]

You guys crack me up. We went all in and got back to back NFCC games. Got 3 straight 13 win seasons. The relationship with ARod was so damaged he won back to back MVPs.

Now we are paying the price for going all in several years to maximize the end of ARods career. In the process we traded 2 aging stars for premier picks. The offense is playing with about as low of a payroll as you possibly can because our All world LT has milked a contract they should have waived long ago.

How about we give our rookie and 2nd year skill guys a chance to improve. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster. And maybe a year to fix an OL that has been broken due to injuries. We could use a new bookend LT and a new center. That alone will go a long way to turn our 2 win team into a 4 win team at this point. SF blew chunks before turning it around. They aquired Trent Williams and drafted top 5 a couple times and are now the class of the NFC. If we finish with the 6 or 7 wins that Rodgers got his rookie season then I'll see light. Remember how frustrated we were at all the 6 yard outs on 3rd and 9 during Rodgers first year starting?? I do.

[bobblehead]

I'll just ask, and its rhetorical. How would you like to be the team with a GM that traded a mountain of picks for Russell Wilson. Traded a couple premium picks for a 40 year old who blew his achilles in 4 snaps? How about the team that traded a 1st and 2nd for a great WR that needed to be paid like an UFA and then have a losing season?

We are going through a process. Losing sucks, I get it. But this hair on fire, burn them all at the stakes is pretty crazy even for an internet crowd....Barry can burn though. Thats reasonable.

[beveaux1]

You guys crack me up. We went all in and got back to back NFCC games. Got 3 straight 13 win seasons. The relationship with ARod was so damaged he won back to back MVPs.

Now we are paying the price for going all in several years to maximize the end of ARods career. In the process we traded 2 aging stars for premier picks. The offense is playing with about as low of a payroll as you possibly can because our All world LT has milked a contract they should have waived long ago.

How about we give our rookie and 2nd year skill guys a chance to improve. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster. And maybe a year to fix an OL that has been broken due to injuries. We could use a new bookend LT and a new center. That alone will go a long way to turn our 2 win team into a 4 win team at this point. SF blew chunks before turning it around. They aquired Trent Williams and drafted top 5 a couple times and are now the class of the NFC. If we finish with the 6 or 7 wins that Rodgers got his rookie season then I'll see light. Remember how frustrated we were at all the 6 yard outs on 3rd and 9 during Rodgers first year starting?? I do.

Actually, this is a very reasonable answer. I continue to be concerned about how good MLF is with a very young team. Is he a good teacher, or is he a chalkboard genius?

If he's a good teacher, we will see improvement along the OL, the WRs and TEs, and, of course, the QB. If not, we'll have plays like Wicks throwing the ball to A Jones every game.

[smuggler]

I'm not so sure I can blame Gute. Kind of disappointed with LaFluer and (to a lesser extent) Love right now.

[call_me_ishmael]

You guys crack me up. We went all in and got back to back NFCC games. Got 3 straight 13 win seasons. The relationship with ARod was so damaged he won back to back MVPs.

Now we are paying the price for going all in several years to maximize the end of ARods career. In the process we traded 2 aging stars for premier picks. The offense is playing with about as low of a payroll as you possibly can because our All world LT has milked a contract they should have waived long ago.

Counter point - did they use those picks well? Did they get good players with them? Early returns are not encouraging as the DL still cannot stop the run and the WR is afraid of the ball. Last year folks were thinking Chris Watson could turn into a poor man's Randy Moss. Right now I have my doubts that he is even a second contract kind of guy.

Agreed on the OL.

How about we give our rookie and 2nd year skill guys a chance to improve. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster. And maybe a year to fix an OL that has been broken due to injuries. We could use a new bookend LT and a new center. That alone will go a long way to turn our 2 win team into a 4 win team at this point. SF blew chunks before turning it around. They aquired Trent Williams and drafted top 5 a couple times and are now the class of the NFC. If we finish with the 6 or 7 wins that Rodgers got his rookie season then I'll see light. Remember how frustrated we were at all the 6 yard outs on 3rd and 9 during Rodgers first year starting?? I do.

They just look like total ass right now. They looked okay with the previous guy, an all-timer. They look like ass presently. I have posted before that Gooter kinda sucks as a drafter. He has done really well in the first round but he rarely gets 2-3 starters in a draft. Last year does look great though. The other years, kinda blah.

I'll just ask, and its rhetorical. How would you like to be the team with a GM that traded a mountain of picks for Russell Wilson. Traded a couple premium picks for a 40 year old who blew his achilles in 4 snaps? How about the team that traded a 1st and 2nd for a great WR that needed to be paid like an UFA and then have a losing season?

We are going through a process. Losing sucks, I get it. But this hair on fire, burn them all at the stakes is pretty crazy even for an internet crowd....Barry can burn though. Thats reasonable.

I have no problem with them rebuilding. But are they actually rebuilding effectively? Or are they on a path to perpetually suck while Gooter is there? I'm not so sure it's not the latter, although his R1 pick quality suggests if they keep doing that and resigning their guys they will at least be decent but never deep.

The team is ass right now because there are very few guys drafted deserving of second contracts:
2018 - 1 (Alexander)
2019 - 2 (Gary, Jenkins)
2020 - Maybe 1 (Love)
2021 - Maybe 1 (Stokes, Myers?)

[MadScientist]

You guys crack me up. We went all in and got back to back NFCC games. Got 3 straight 13 win seasons. The relationship with ARod was so damaged he won back to back MVPs.

Now we are paying the price for going all in several years to maximize the end of ARods career. In the process we traded 2 aging stars for premier picks. The offense is playing with about as low of a payroll as you possibly can because our All world LT has milked a contract they should have waived long ago.

How about we give our rookie and 2nd year skill guys a chance to improve. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster. And maybe a year to fix an OL that has been broken due to injuries. We could use a new bookend LT and a new center. That alone will go a long way to turn our 2 win team into a 4 win team at this point. SF blew chunks before turning it around. They aquired Trent Williams and drafted top 5 a couple times and are now the class of the NFC. If we finish with the 6 or 7 wins that Rodgers got his rookie season then I'll see light. Remember how frustrated we were at all the 6 yard outs on 3rd and 9 during Rodgers first year starting?? I do.

7 games, plus a bye are enough to expect to see some signs of improvement. We are not seeing any. Doubs and Watson look worse than last year. Love's accuracy is not getting better, and the running game is weak, both in design and execution. Even if you think the players have the talent, the pathetic showing in the first half of every game shows a sever coaching problem that needs to be dealt with.

[Fritz]

You guys crack me up. We went all in and got back to back NFCC games. Got 3 straight 13 win seasons. The relationship with ARod was so damaged he won back to back MVPs.

Now we are paying the price for going all in several years to maximize the end of ARods career. In the process we traded 2 aging stars for premier picks. The offense is playing with about as low of a payroll as you possibly can because our All world LT has milked a contract they should have waived long ago.

How about we give our rookie and 2nd year skill guys a chance to improve. We give our first year starter at QB a shot to see things a little faster. And maybe a year to fix an OL that has been broken due to injuries. We could use a new bookend LT and a new center. That alone will go a long way to turn our 2 win team into a 4 win team at this point. SF blew chunks before turning it around. They aquired Trent Williams and drafted top 5 a couple times and are now the class of the NFC. If we finish with the 6 or 7 wins that Rodgers got his rookie season then I'll see light. Remember how frustrated we were at all the 6 yard outs on 3rd and 9 during Rodgers first year starting?? I do.

Look at what I wrote - I didn't say Guter was a tire fire or anything like that. But I pointed out that his defensive and offensive lines - where the game is won - are not playing well. Offensively you can make a better argument that they'll get better, as Tom is a second year guy and Walker is, too - but the defensive line? Will a fourth and sixth round pick on the D-line show enough improvement to make that the kind of dominant unit you need? Probably not. And Wyatt, in his second year, seems to have not improved.

I'm not anti-Guter.I am saying he hasn't done so well in the trenches.

[Bretsky]

Gutebag built this team to absolutely dominate on defense via the NFL Draft. This has been an EPIC Failure.

Gutebag gave up both a 1st and 4th round draft pick on Love. At this point he looks like a disappointment. I think he might be OK; we don't want to pay for an OK quarterback.

I'm not calling for him to be fired, but any means. But he's average at best currently. 8 First rounders on defense and the results are not there.

Drafted a Center who he fell in love that was his guy wit....had everybody WTF .....did he get drunk and forgot Creed Humphrey has not been drafted yet ?
.
Broke the bank for a LT who he should've found a way to dump by now. Our OL is pretty disappointing this year

[King Friday]

Not sure I can fault Gute on Bahk, as that was to placate Rodgers. I doubt Gute gives him the huge deal without the Rodgers dynamic.

His high end draft capital has been mediocre at best. To me, a really good GM will hit solid starter on more than 50% of his top 100 picks. Let’s review Gute…5* is great starter, 3* is solid starter, 1* is hot garbage

2018: Jaire 5*, Jackson 1*, Burks 1* (33%)
2019: Gary 5*, Savage 1*, Jenkins 5*, Sternburger 1* (50%)
2020: Love 3*, Dillon 3*, Deguara 1* (66%)
2021: Stokes 1*, Myers 1*, Rodgers 1* (0%)
2022: Walker 3*, Wyatt 1*, Watson 3*, Rhyan 1* (50%)

Really hasn’t hit on anything solid for several years. Quay has probably been his best pick since 2019. The jury is still kind of out on Love. I think he can be a solid starter, but that isn’t what you want at QB even if it works at other positions. Stokes pick may be one you don’t consider due to the injuries.

7 for 17 is a poor track record in the top 100.

[sharpe1027]

.

Gutebag gave up both a 1st and 4th round draft pick on Love. At this point he looks like a disappointment. I think he might be OK; we don't want to pay for an OK quarterback.

To be fair, Love was a late first round pick. Getting a starting QB that late isn't a sure thing, much less getting a good QB that can carry a team.