Still doesn't address the main point.Originally Posted by RashanGary
Bad play, players fault. Good play, great call by Barry.
Still doesn't address the main point.
Bad play, players fault. Good play, great call by Barry.
But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim Harmston
Having starters Jaire and Savage back means less blown coverages, more good plays, and the ability for Barry to call more complex defense.
So yes, playing worse players is the players. Barry is good.
Playing better players is the players. Barry is good.
The consistent is Barry being good. The variable is the bad players playing bad and the good playing good.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
If Barry being bad was the problem and the constant than playing better players wouldn’t be making a difference.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
I don’t make the rules, Thunderdan. I’m but a messenger. Like Jesus of Mohammed.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Maybe you guys should really make a difference. Go to games, follow him around, call him a piece of shit. Or easier, I know people have been harassing his teenage daughter on social media. You could do that.
Or you could admit that you don’t know who’s to blame and stop blaming the coach for 3rd string players and undrafted rookie mistakes.
That’s a lot to ask, I know.
Honestly, I don’t know if Barry is good anymore than you know he’s bad. But what I do know for certain, it’s that nobody here knows if Barry is the main problem or a problem at all. That much I know beyond doubt.
And I know they were playing cover 1 man with a blitzer and not cover 3 zone on the savage pick 6. That’s without a doubt.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Specifically they lined up in a cover 2 look. Campbell motioning with the slot receiver indicated it was cover 2 man. Post snap the packers blitzed Campbell and brought Savage down to cover the slot receiver. Dak wasn’t ready for it. Savage was coming down hill with one eye on his coverage responsibility and the other eye on the QB. He was drifting toward his guy when he saw Dak staring down the 2 receiver running a mirrored slant behind his slot responsibility. He saw an opportunity and took it. Pick 6.
That’s what happened. Etch it in stone.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
What message are you bringing? What rules are we talking about?
But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim Harmston
That isn’t true and you know it. Better players usually bring better results no matter who is coaching them.
But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim Harmston
https://x.com/PoolPartyGaming/status...391376137?s=20
Look at this, Thunderdan and then watch the tv copy. What this dynamic dot diagram doesn’t show is that Campbell followed the slot over to his position in the three bunch on the left side. It’s all slants out of that bunch. Campbell has inside leverage on the slot receiver, who all indications are he’s covering because of the motion. Nixon is lined up with outside leverage on CeeDee. Maybe it’s a choice route, maybe it was called all slants, but whether CeeDee chose the route or it was called, it was the right decision based on the look because it’s your best player and he had the leverage you want for the route.
It was a knuckle ball from Barry. That is not a core defense concept. It’s like a pitcher who has a fast ball and a curve ball, but twice a game he has a knuckle ball he can kind of throw. This is a surprise look. Dak was already wide eyed and pressing from getting his butt kicked for a half of football. It was the perfect time to throw a surprise pitch when he’s already been brushed back by a 104 heater that almost hit him in the chin a couple times.
It was a really important down for Dallas. 3rd and 2. Sav coming down hill both protected against the run and was a surprise in the passing game. Dak was getting harassed all half. They needed a first down. It was a good time to take a risk. The odds of Dallas looking for a shot there was slim based on the situation and the way the game was playing. There wasn’t as much risk getting beat over the top with the risky cover 1 call.
Barry dialed up a haymaker and landed it right on fat mikes chin. Tip your hat.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Why would I follow Joe Barry around or follow anyone on social media? That sounds like something you used to do. Sorry, I don’t get that worked up about a game that I try to find the people in person.
I am a fan and I am allowed to my opinion. I look at stats. I look at Barry’s historical record and the 0-16 Lions and the rest of his career. I have more than happy to give Barry props for yesterday’s game and I will point out when we get shredded by Car and the Giants.
But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim Harmston
Are we really advocating for keeping Barry? I don't think I can get on board. We let go Pettine after disappointment from the defense. Pettine was actually decent. Barry sucks and, I expect, there are more disappointments in store until his contract runs out.
And this has never been the position of the fire Joe Barry cult. Not once had anyone said the talent in the back end is lacking, especially in the middle parts of the season, due to injury and starting the year with guys who are not ready to play in the NFL. It’s always been that the team is extremely talented and Barry’s ineptitude is destroying our chances so he needs to be fired.
That’s why I point out that the players make a difference in the game. I point out the secondary struggles at the player level and why a coach can’t do much for a guy who can’t play well no matter what.
So when his secondary is particularly decimated he’s trying to cover that up. Maybe he has the line rushing the passer more aggressively to help the pass defense, but he’s giving up runs then. Maybe the offense sputters and the defense ends up on the field a lot because they gave up too many runs. Maybe you realize that’s not working so you go back to disciplined rushes but then bad quarterbacks chew you up. Maybe then you get your better secondary players back and everything works better. Maybe the offense starts clicking and now you’re steam rolling.
Maybe it’s the players. It’s not far fetched.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Nope Justin, but at least you are learning the coverages and rotation.
Let's go to the tape https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnyMQX0951E
This ain't no off man cover one. The deep guys are two safeties and a corner. This rotation is set up to give plenty of cover on Lamb. Savage is reading his keys and then plays his read on Lamb's route. Does he ever read that shit right, he jumps Lamb's route for the pick 6. In this cover the one safety goes deep to be the deepest of the deep, the other guy is Savage and the 3rd guy is the off corner covering that wide out and not part of this play. That's a sky coverage. Cloud is similar, Two corner and a safety rotate deep. It's used far less than in days of yore, corners are used more in different rotations.
I see people yell about this all the time, but they just don't understand the strategy of zone coverage. ALL zones evolve into man (coaches call it iso) eventually. That's the point of them. To rotate guys into position to have leveraged coverage or to be in the right spot to give help at the right spot and the right time. Most Nfl coverages incorporate principles of both zone and man coverages in various combinations. There are any number of rules in the various covers as to who does what and who goes where. I make it a hobby to pick up on these coverages and the rules and changes in em. The way I figure it, I'm probably 10 years behind the average young NFL assistant. Making me only half a moron.
Ahem…cough, cough…
I shall wait until the “shutdown corner” (who shut down Charles whats-his-name) weighs in on this matter. The basics and strategies of the game must be learned and respected!!
Pistol Force!
Ky, this shows it better
https://twitter.com/PoolPartyGaming/...oolPartyGaming
I suppose you can make a case that jaire and Valentine were playing their deep cover 3 zones by the way they’re keeping everything in front of them. That would leave only three defenders covering the hooks and flats. And Quays path is a little suspect if I’m trying to say it’s off man coverage. He seems to be playing zone more than he’s playing the running back.
But check out this clip and tell me what you’re seeing from the corners. What is their zone?
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Nice of you to take the young muchacho loco under your wing KY. Very much like a Roman elder statesman would take an apprentice in. RashanGary can learn a lot from you. I just did, awesome post and now I understand what it was I was seeing. Thanks man.
Note - It’s one thing for us to talk shit to each other about each other. It is another thing to involve non-posters especially family in our battles. One of the few boundaries here. Being a flat out troll doesn’t help either.
https://x.com/PoolPartyGaming/status...391376137?s=20
KY, do check the above link out because it shows alignment and post snap action so much clearer than the TV copy. There is absolutely no way to see the play using that. The all 11 is better, but what I linked here is the clearest way to see what happened.
KY, in cover 3, correct me if I’m wrong, but the above image is how it would have been played with the safety rotation. The only difference is we had Campbell blitzing so savage would have been playing both hooks.
Nixon as nickle was a linebacker type. He was covering the curl/flat on the offenses left. Quay was the other linebacker covering the curl flat on the offenses right. Savage was crashing down to cover both hooks. That seems like the only reasonable way to define how 3 guys were covering the 5 shallow zones in a cover 3 look.
Once you blitzed Cambell, you’re leaving everyone else in a really tough spot to cover the shallow part of the field. I don’t know why you’d call zone here. You have a nickle. In man defense you have corners and a safety (savage) on receivers with quay on the back. It’s so much simpler to be in soft man and tell your linebacker types that they can break on inside routes because they have a safety over the top than to play an undermanned zone and leave all sorts of uncertainty on how to cover the curl flats.
Whether it’s man or zone you’re short handed and have to play soft or it’s really easy to get killed. I just don’t see any advantage to making this a zone coverage. I suppose there’s no way to know if the corners were playing deep 1/3s or man because no one threatened the outside 1/3s, but it looks a lot easier to execute soft man defense here.
Whichever way it was called, savage crashing helped the run defense be aggressive and was an element of surprise in the passing game. I was sure it was man, but trying to see it the way you’re describing, I guess there’s no way to know. I don’t know how you could know which one it was any more than I do??
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Firstly, piss on those little bouncing dot depictions of the routes and the covers. Watch the tape, pal.
Quay isn't in a off man cover at all. He is in a zone cover that he never had to execute bc Savage made the great pick. What you don't know is was Quay's cover match or pattern. In pattern, you cover the area the receiver enters into (Like in a zone d in basketball) In a match cover, you pick up the man in iso and cover his ass in man to man fashion. Match coverage is also called "Lock" which is probably a better description of the assignment. You lock onto the receiver that comes into your area.
The corners are in a boundry cover in the zone. Jaire does a trail cover. I dunno if these guys are this sophisticated, but they baited our friend Dak to throw late middle and Darnell snapped up on it like a pastrami on rye.
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