You can cut the player before the roster bonus is due and not pay it.Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker
You can cut the player before the roster bonus is due and not pay it.
Because 1) David Bacteria is still a packer and b) He hasn't played any significant snaps in years. Ergo, the cap fucked us into a bad situation and we probably lost the chance to sign either our own, or other FAs because of it.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
Tex - not all bonuses are the same. A roster bonus is different from signing bonus. it's all in the timing.
signing bonus is at signing the contract, hence immediately payable. The roster bonus is dependent on being on the roster on date X.
So...you're saying the signing bonus is paid out when you sign the contract and the roster bonus is paid out if you're on the roster at a stipulated date?
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
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LOL Captain Obvious McMansplainer hacked my account.
Sometimes that's what it takes for it to be understood, appraently.
Yes but (on the bonus thing), in both cases, once they're paid, there's no getting them back or undoing them - short of something like fraud or something else really weird.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
correct
Yes. The difference is the roster bonus hits all in the year it's paid, so you can cut or trade the player with no acceleration of cap into that year. When you push cap into future years using signing bonuses, you end up in situations where cutting or trading a player accelerates so much cap it's not possible to cut or trade the player. You then might have to carry a worthless player on your roster for one or more years paying significantly more than if you had not pushed so much cap into future years.
So for a simplistic financial conservative like me, roster bonus = good because you're not living on credit, and signing bonuses pushed ahead = bad because then in 2026 you're paying for something that you bought in 2022 that you may not even have any more.
Simplistic, I know. But you helped me understand the concepts, so thank you.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Neither is good or bad. You just have different consequences. Contrary to some arguments, it's not possible to cook the cap and never have consequences.
The original post assumes the players all remain healthy and a playing at an appropriate level. I stole a bit from Darrell Royal** but three things can happen when signing a player to a multiyear contract and two of them are bad; the player can meet/exceed expectations, fail to play to the level of the contract, or suffer an injury (injuries) that make the contract a cap burden. The third of these is especially detrimental as a team then needs to spend additional money for a replacement player. Most teams try to structure contracts to have an out after year two and the option to kick money into future years by using roster bonuses that can be converted to a signing bonus and divided out over the remaining years of a contract.
** Darrell Royal (60s Texas Longhorns coach) " I’ve always felt that three things can happen to you whenever you throw the football, and two of them are bad. You can catch the ball, you can throw it incomplete, or have it intercepted."
The difference between the NFL and MLB of course, is that in the NFL it's not guaranteed beyond the first year in virtually every case. You can cut them if they fail or get hurt without future harm except for cap issues from bonuses paid.
Wasn't that quote from Woody Hayes, not Darrell Royal?
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
I thought it was Woody Hayes, but time has shown that those fears don't warrant the way they called offenses - not even back then. Bo Schembecler would storm through the Big Ten every year just because he and Woody Hayes got all the best athletes (Hmm, could it be they cheated???), but whenever he got to the Rose Bowl, his teams got stomped because he was runnng the ball forty-five times a game and passing maybe three times. His style of ball was out-of-date by the mid-70's.
So, as we used to say so eloquently in college, fuck that shit.
As for the cap, I do tend to be more conservative. Pay as you go. Though I realize that may not be the best way to get a Super Bowl. Gotta be flexible, to some degree, at least.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
True, but in the short term, there is benefit - just like buying a house or car to use your credit analogy. Is it a good thing to have to walk or ride a bicycle until you can pay cash for a car?
And consequences? Yes, but ...... You can count on the cap going up, which enables if not cooking it per se, pushing things on down the road over and over and over, and benefiting every step of the way. The consequence might be not being able to afford quite as much as some other team for a free agent, but going overboard like that might be overpaying and not wise anyway. The successful teams generally push the cap to near the limit and are generally glad they did.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
You need to utilize all the tools, IMHO. I do think the natural tendency is to be overly aggressive in the short term to the detriment of the long term. That's only natural given the incentives to keep your job as a GM often require results every year.
Last edited by sharpe1027; 02-29-2024 at 03:53 PM.
Tex, were you one of those guys who was juggling four or five women at a time??
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Thank god we never did that!!!
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
Sounds expensive.
hahahaha just manipulating the cap.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...27e2ab2&ei=146
I know I should let this topic die, but this was a good article. Packers have over $50 million dead money this year. Not sure how much we have kicked forward, but I think its probably less, which means that we are currently operating at a cap liability for the years we went all in. The good news is that most teams did a similar thing after COVID so the net negative isn't as bad, but the few teams who didn't leverage the future have a pretty sizeable advantage to sign their own right now.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
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