Happy 5 year anniversary!!!

[Kiwon]

I do not look forward to the 6th, 7th, ....anniversaries.

Ask the people of Seoul, Tokyo, Berlin etc if our presence there is worth it to them? Ask next time you buy a Hyundai or that LG refrigerator on your kitchen, or your neighbors Subaru or VW.

I live in Korea and many, many of my neighbors have worked or studied, or have relatives in the U.S. They lead stable and relatively prosperous lives in an environment of less crime and better education than many places in the States.

Surrounded by Japan, China, and North Korea, the South Koreans know exactly who their best friend is and how their modernization came to be. The significance of the American sacrifices of 55 years ago are not lost upon them.

While the cultural differences between Koreans and Iraqis have to be considered before any hard conclusions are formed, there is no question that the U.S. presence in South Korea has been a huge positive for both sides.

[oregonpackfan]

You got it exactly right about the left demagoguing the Mission Accomplished idea--which was meant for and very true for that carrier group. It was true for the military in general--which was spectacularly successful in defeating Saddam's vaunted military.

[/quote]

How in the world did Saddah Hussain have a "Vaunted Military?"

He had no navy, his air force did not fly a single sortie in the entire war. His army consisted of just 1 well-trained battalion. The rest of the army consisted of conscripted, poorly-trained soldiers who did not want to fight for him.

The outcome was easily predictable.

[Scott Campbell]

The outcome was easily predictable.

If it was that predictable, we wouldn't still be there.

[The Leaper]

If it was that predictable, we wouldn't still be there.

We aren't in Iraq currently because of Hussein's armies.

[Scott Campbell]

If it was that predictable, we wouldn't still be there.

We aren't in Iraq currently because of Hussein's armies.

I don't think it really matters why. Invading is a tactic that is only effective and successful if you can get in, win, and get out - quickly. Once your looking back at 5 years of this, you have to realize that we clearly underestimated what it was going to take.

This country has no appetite for conflicts that involve troops on the ground in a foreign country for the better part of a decade. So if we can't win quickly, then you have to resort to some other method - covert ops or bombing runs, or God forbid, diplomacy to solve your problems.

[GoPackGo]

This country has no appetite for conflicts that involve troops on the ground in a foreign country for the better part of a decade. So if we can't win quickly, then you have to resort to some other method - covert ops or bombing runs, or God forbid, diplomacy to solve your problems.

That describes me pretty well. When I voted for Bush in 2004 I felt he was the best canidate to feed my appetite for 911 payback on Bin Laden and anyone who harbored and protected him, not the conflict we are in right now in iraq with no end in sight.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The anniversary was last month you crackhead.

I know, but i'm a crackhead...what, you expect me to be on time?

[Scott Campbell]

The anniversary was last month you crackhead.

I know, but i'm a crackhead...what, you expect me to be on time?

Of course I don't expect you to be on time. But why would you expect me to let it slide?

[texaspackerbacker]

The outcome was predictable, but NOT because of anything negative about the quality of the enemy army, but because of the greatness of the American military.

Let me explain it like this: The Vikings play the Dolphins, and it's predictable because the Dolphins are so bad. However, the Packers play the Vikings, and it's also predictable--not because the Vikings are so bad, but because the Packers are so good. THAT--the latter example--was the case with U.S. v Saddam's Iraq.

Before the first Gulf War, Jane's Fighting Forces--the definitive rater of military forces--had Saddam's military rated at 4th best in the world. Even after we quickly defeated THAT vaunted force, the bulk of Saddam's army remained intact--to a MUCH greater extent than Oregon or whoever it was stated. Perhaps you've heard of the Republican Guard--not some organization that guards Republicans. These were Saddam's elite forces. He didn't commit them in the first Gulf War. Thus, they were there in all their splendor when we invaded Iraq. Our army and marines ran through them like a hot knife through butter. Somebody mentioned Saddam's lack of an air force. Well, that's because he flew all his planes to Iran for safe keeping--and then couldn't get them back.

The mission indeed WAS accomplished at that point.

Then, the SECOND MISSION began--the previously liberal policy of nation-building. Honestly, I think we would have accomplished THAT mission fairly quickly too. However, a new factor was injected. Al Qaeda decided that NOT having a thriving free representative democracy in Iraq was MORE INTOLERABLE for them than their previously top mission--committing terrorist acts against America at home. They bombed the mosque at Samarra and perpetrated a bunch of other acts of barbarism to stir up latent sectarian violence. They WANTED to instigate a civil war. Fortunately, leadership of the three Iraqi factions stopped short of that.

That al Qaeda commitment has cost us huge amounts of money and 4,000 or so troops. It has also been a MAJOR DETERMINANT IN PREVENTING ACTS OF TERROR IN AMERICA that would have cost us many times MORE money and many times MORE loss of life.

There is just no getting around that bad news/good news assessment of the war--with the good news greatly outweighing the bad.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The anniversary was last month you crackhead.

I know, but i'm a crackhead...what, you expect me to be on time?

Of course I don't expect you to be on time. But why would you expect me to let it slide?

I wouldn't. I expect it out of you. Somebody has to keep this crackhead in line.

[Kiwon]

The anniversary was last month you crackhead.

I know, but i'm a crackhead...what, you expect me to be on time?

You heard Brett Farve retired, right?